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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 4:57 am 
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Morning


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... r-suggests

Jail sentences of six months or less for most crimes could be scrapped to alleviate pressure on the system, the prisons minister has suggested.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 10:19 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... are_btn_tw


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 10:36 am 
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Good-morning, everyone


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 10:49 am 
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In the vanishingly unlikely event of a govt of National Unity, I hope Joanna Cherry's involved.
https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/statu ... 4179970053

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:01 am 
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Yeah she is definitely one of the better Nats.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:04 am 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-englan ... nefits-cut


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:07 am 
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Just a reminder ,that U.C is just one prong of attack in the "war against welfare"


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:12 am 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-sussex-46832681/seaford-man-ignored-over-cystic-fibrosis-benefits-cut

Quote:
Ms Rudd told us: "Some of the criticisms that have come from various publications have been based on one or two particular individuals where the advice hasn't worked for them.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... n=sharebar

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:14 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ard-brexit


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:22 am 
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Typical Toryist utteration/attempt to deceive;of course some pertain to individualised instances;the obvious retort is that indicative of systematic by design/inherent flaws.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:26 am 
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Morning.

Amber Rudd's improvements to UC sound suspiciously like making it more like the "broken" system it replaces, what with looking at housing benefit payments direct to landlords again and trying to find a way to ensure money for children goes to the primary carer.

Then there's the recent court case over calculating anomalies thrown up by the move to monthly payments because "most employers pay monthly" - yes, but not all in the same way on the same day of the month you absolute dullards! So UC is always going to be out of sync with a lot of employers. Paying 2 or 4 weekly based on an estimated and later confirmed annual income was complicated enough to administer as Labour showed with child tax credits, but is was accurate and ensured everyone who worked the same hours for the same pay got the exact same benefits over the course of a year. Under the current system, assessed monthly (which is a variable time period) it seems that people on the same hours and pay can end up with different amounts of benefit over the year based purely on the frequency and dates their pay goes into their bank accounts, because double pay one month changes entitlement in a way that isn't necessarily evened out by no payment another month. At least that's my understanding of what's going on and part of why the four working mums won their case. It's about more than the difficulties of budgeting with fluctuating payments although that's a pretty bad and undesirable feature in itself compared to the previous "flawed" system of knowing what you're getting each month won't change for at least a year if your hours and work remain the same.

No mention of free school meals, I notice, something that was straightforward previously in the majority of cases because it was an automatic qualification for specific individual benefits but now everyone just gets UC and UC covers all sorts of situations so every single UC claimant will need to be means tested specifically when claiming free school meals and not just once but on a regular basis to check the income threshold hasn't been passed. At least, again, that's my understanding but I might have got it wrong because UC is supposed to be so simple and that sounds rather complicated so surely it can't be right.

<sigh>

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:34 am 
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gilsey wrote:
HindleA wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-sussex-46832681/seaford-man-ignored-over-cystic-fibrosis-benefits-cut
Quote:
Ms Rudd told us: "Some of the criticisms that have come from various publications have been based on one or two particular individuals where the advice hasn't worked for them.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... n=sharebar
"where the advice hasn't worked for them"
Rudd's entire pronouncement there is a disgrace
These are government ministers in charge of the nation


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:38 am 
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Snail mail averaging of fluctuating weekly wages worked with zero problems,a child of ten with average numeracy skills could work it out,multi billion computer system seemingly can't.


Last edited by HindleA on Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:41 am 
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Voting for the Tories is the wrong advice.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:42 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Snail mail averaging of fluctuating wages worked with zero problems,a child of ten with average numeracy skills could work it out,multi billion computer system seemingly can't.
I don't think government want it to work
I think government would like most people to just go away


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:47 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Typical Toryist utteration/attempt to deceive;of course some pertain to individualised instances;the obvious retort is that indicative of systematic by design/inherent flaws.


The biggest issue is that in the past if you had an issue with one benefit, for whatever reason, you often still had other benefits still coming in because they were dealt with separately but now if there is an issue with, say, whether you should be on JSA or ESA and your UC payment is stopped because of that and is awaiting reassessment you will also lose your housing benefit payment because it's part of UC and you can't just stop the bit that there is a query on even though you would still qualify for another bit like housing benefit regardless of whether you should be on JSA or ESA. This isn't something that can be tweaked and it's not something that will ever go away because there will always be problems and issues with claims, including admin errors that are no fault of the claimant, that are now, under UC, always going to plunge people into far deeper financial difficulties than would have happened in similar circumstances under the old system.

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:48 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... rat-hawaii

Tulsi Gabbard: Democrat says she will run for president in 2020


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:50 am 
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@cJA

How common was the term "hoosegow" used as an expression for jail in your experience.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:51 am 
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HindleA wrote:
Snail mail averaging of fluctuating weekly wages worked with zero problems,a child of ten with average numeracy skills could work it out,multi billion computer system seemingly can't.


There isn't a multi billion computer system.

There are several multi million computer systems, none of which are able to talk to each other.

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:51 am 
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?

(Before PF gets her oar in)


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:53 am 
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@willow,hence manual and abacus?


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:55 am 
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I get paid weekly,of course this is the case for the majority who may need UC but will remonstrate with employers suitably.How dare they not teach me to budget.properly.


Last edited by HindleA on Sat 12 Jan, 2019 12:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:56 am 
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citizenJA wrote:
gilsey wrote:
HindleA wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-sussex-46832681/seaford-man-ignored-over-cystic-fibrosis-benefits-cut
Quote:
Ms Rudd told us: "Some of the criticisms that have come from various publications have been based on one or two particular individuals where the advice hasn't worked for them.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/ ... n=sharebar
"where the advice hasn't worked for them"
Rudd's entire pronouncement there is a disgrace
These are government ministers in charge of the nation


Yeah, I thought that was a strange phrase as well.

I may have over-estimated Rudd at DWP. She's already drowning in the sheer impossibility of defending the indefensible. It's amazing how advising people with no access to a computer to apply online doesn't work for some people, isn't it? Or how advising people with life threatening conditions that they are fit for work doesn't actually cure them of heart disease. Is there any point at which they will admit the "advice" rather than the recipient may actually be what's wrong with the system?

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:57 am 
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HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/11/tulsi-gabbard-run-president-2020-democrat-hawaii

Tulsi Gabbard: Democrat says she will run for president in 2020

As well as supporting Assad (as mentioned in that article), she also supports Modi and Sisi. Hell of a lot of baggage there.

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/05/tul ... list-modi/


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 11:59 am 
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Can't admit/take responsibility not least for not taking two seconds to actually read what you have voted for.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 12:04 pm 
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Replicating the world of insecure irregular unknowable income work,the whole point of the system is to provide security rather than the exact opposite.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 12:06 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
@willow,hence manual and abacus?


There is a general rumour that the much vaunted IT system that was going to make everything automatic was never actually successfully developed despite the huge outlay of money so the system is more a case of cobbling together several systems and filling in the gaps - as you say - manually, though possibly not with an abacus.

Certainly the government doesn't say much about the IT system anymore and very definitely doesn't talk about the long heralded but never arrived financial savings from its automated awesomeness. All the UC savings seem to have come from cuts to the amounts paid out (which you could have got just from cutting the value of legacy benefits as Osborne wanted) and probably, sadly, from people being unable to access what they are entitled to as easily as previously.

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 12:18 pm 
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You are correct about the gradual return to old system."test and learn" is a highly inappropriate method of implementation snd there were specific evidential reasons as to why the previous specificities existed.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 12:25 pm 
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I know the square root of f.a,always been a concern that those charged with responsibility appear to know even less.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 12:27 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/ ... it-economy


Small energy firms' customers warned over credit as Economy fails
It can be dangerous to run up big balances as nine companies have collapsed in the past year


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 12:50 pm 
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Having worked in management I know that it's hard to improve systems and ways of doing things without a solid understanding from the perspective of those who actually have to operate and use those systems. People promoted into management from the shop floor would often take that knowledge with them, although there's no reason why someone appointed from the outside can't easily access that knowledge and understanding from simply talking to the people working at ground level. MPs don't have to be smart or clever they just need to harness the knowledge of those who have it. That's essentially what the civil service is (was?) for. The MP says what they would like to achieve and the civil servant advises on how it could (or could not) be done. This comes back to what I was saying yesterday about the Labour government accepting the advice that UC couldn't be done or at least wouldn't achieve what it set out to achieve. It seems clear the Coalition government chose to ignore this advice and then promptly sacked half the civil service so they wouldn't get advice they didn't like again. A lot of the mess we are currently in as a country comes back to this inability to accept informed advice from "below" as opposed to from the equally theoretical opinion of their peers.

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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 12:52 pm 
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refitman wrote:
HindleA wrote:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jan/11/tulsi-gabbard-run-president-2020-democrat-hawaii

Tulsi Gabbard: Democrat says she will run for president in 2020

As well as supporting Assad (as mentioned in that article), she also supports Modi and Sisi. Hell of a lot of baggage there.

https://theintercept.com/2019/01/05/tul ... list-modi/


Ugh, bit of an unholy alliance there alright :sick:


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 1:27 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
@cJA

How common was the term "hoosegow" used as an expression for jail in your experience.
It's use depends on place and people. I've experienced a lot of different parts of the world. In most communities I've lived in, I'm notable for my eclectic vocabulary primarily collected from various parts of the North American continent. I've read a lot too.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 1:34 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
---
I may have over-estimated Rudd at DWP. She's already drowning in the sheer impossibility of defending the indefensible. It's amazing how advising people with no access to a computer to apply online doesn't work for some people, isn't it? Or how advising people with life threatening conditions that they are fit for work doesn't actually cure them of heart disease. Is there any point at which they will admit the "advice" rather than the recipient may actually be what's wrong with the system?
(cJA edit & emphasis)
When they're in the hoosegow following a guilty verdict of misconduct in public office
maybe


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 1:40 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
Having worked in management I know that it's hard to improve systems and ways of doing things without a solid understanding from the perspective of those who actually have to operate and use those systems. People promoted into management from the shop floor would often take that knowledge with them, although there's no reason why someone appointed from the outside can't easily access that knowledge and understanding from simply talking to the people working at ground level. MPs don't have to be smart or clever they just need to harness the knowledge of those who have it. That's essentially what the civil service is (was?) for. The MP says what they would like to achieve and the civil servant advises on how it could (or could not) be done. This comes back to what I was saying yesterday about the Labour government accepting the advice that UC couldn't be done or at least wouldn't achieve what it set out to achieve. It seems clear the Coalition government chose to ignore this advice and then promptly sacked half the civil service so they wouldn't get advice they didn't like again. A lot of the mess we are currently in as a country comes back to this inability to accept informed advice from "below" as opposed to from the equally theoretical opinion of their peers.
Their incapacity for leadership is a tragedy for us all


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 3:33 pm 
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Good morfternoon.
Good morfternoon.

Quote:
The Observer

Prisons and probation
Grayling under fire as serious crimes committed on parole soar by 50%

Ex-justice minister’s probation reforms have led to huge rise in serious offences, data shows


Hoorayling for Grayling! Is there no beginning to the man's talents?? (I've added a bonus "?" so that HindleA can put it behind his ear for later.)

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jan/12/chris-grayling-probation-reforms-serious-crimes-committed-on-parole-soar


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 4:43 pm 
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Spare ? Subsidy ?


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 4:59 pm 
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Quote:
Grayling under fire as serious crimes committed on parole soar by 50%
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... arole-soar
Is there nothing we can do preventing his disasters


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 5:00 pm 
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https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 5:07 pm 
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The constituency of Epsom and Ewell has an electorate total of over 80,000 people
44,716 of them didn't vote in the last GE (2017)
35,313 voted for Grayling
Your votes could make the difference between Grayling in government or responsible leadership, people of Epsom and Ewell.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 5:24 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... tions-fall

England’s schools face staffing crisis as EU teachers stay at home
Fears that uncertainty over Brexit will hit language learning after 25% drop in applications from EU citizens


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 5:25 pm 
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The maths there is slightly wrong shurely? Unless you meant to say over 44k didn't vote *for Grayling*?


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 6:42 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... rder-chaos


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 7:11 pm 
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-e ... our-fridge


Would you give bats a home in your fridge?

As long as they pay rent.


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 7:15 pm 
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... m-in-italy


Why Italy regrets its Faustian pact with tourist cash
Venice, Florence, Rome are all struggling to cope with selfie-stick sightseers, but turnstiles at city gates will worsen the problem

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... d-flooding


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 7:16 pm 
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Put that gin vat down PF


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 7:16 pm 
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And


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 7:17 pm 
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Prepare


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 7:17 pm 
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To


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PostPosted: Sat 12 Jan, 2019 7:17 pm 
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PTO


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