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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 4:15 pm 
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You forgot the PTO.....


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 4:55 pm 
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Ed Miliband, the former Labour leader, says the government is a servant of the Commons. If May loses the vote, she would let the Commons have its say.

May says the government is a servant of the people.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... 6a8682788d
May is wrong again


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 5:54 pm 
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I think it's all a bit more complicated than that. The Commons gave May the authority to negotiate this deal on behalf of the nation when they voted in favour of triggering article 50. Labour thus nominally supported the negotiation of a hard Brexit as outlined in the government's pathetically slim white paper.

If May had gone straight from A to B from there she might have a point, but she didn't. She went to the country asking for a mandate for her hard Brexit and promptly lost her majority and hence her mandate to negotiate a hard Brexit.

Oh and just to complicate things the Brexit she ended up negotiating doesn't look entirely like the one promised in the white paper or the Tory manifesto anyway.

So we have the ERG demanding the hard Brexit promised but rejected by the 2017 electorate while we have the Labour leadership demanding a softer Brexit than they endorsed when voting to trigger article 50.

While backbenchers from both parties demand a new, and possibly clearer, mandate in the form of a further referendum.


To be frank, if anyone can unravel out of that little lot which is the fairest and most objectively democratic way forward I'd be very impressed!

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 6:06 pm 
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Sovereignty is in parliament, not the people
that's all I meant


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 6:09 pm 
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The state of this...

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Adam Bienkov

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Brexiteer Conservative MP Desmond Swayne calls on Theresa May to suspend parliament until April in order to "guarantee Brexit."

9:17 AM - 14 Jan 2019


:lol:

So it's not only a lot of the public who don't understand Parliamentary procedure?

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 6:12 pm 
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I mean, that one really does fall into the "DON'T GIVE HER IDEAS" category........


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 6:15 pm 
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goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 6:28 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Sovereignty is in parliament, not the people
that's all I meant


Absolutely.

Which is why parliament had to confer the power to trigger article 50 to the executive in the first place. They handed May the power to negotiate her hard Brexit, the irony being, in seeking a mandate direct from the people to go alongside her mandate from parliament she essential lost both!

(Don't worry if you don't get my nerdy joke. I'm not being serious or disagreeing with Ed Miliband in any way, I'm just having some fun at May's expense!).

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 8:37 pm 
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“Don’t let the people down” reminds me again that I am not considered to be part of “the people”. Which is to say that 63% of “the people” that didn’t vote to lose our relative freedom.

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 8:48 pm 
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PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
gilsey wrote:
Apparently she left the Wales bit out.

Whether she did or didn't, it's all over the news! The BBC have
Quote:
We've never had a referendum in the United Kingdom that we've not honoured the result of

which deserves attention for its utter inelegance if nothing else!


I do wonder if people would think differently (vis a vis democracy and the will of the people) if this were about the death penalty rather than Brexit.

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 8:52 pm 
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Interesting stuff on the Withdrawal Bill amendments.

Hilary Benn is considering withdrawing his. Why? Because if passed it kills the Bill with no further votes. So, it saves May from catastrophic humiliation.

In the meantime, the Labour front bench amendment has some interesting new signatories. Full list:
Jeremy Corbyn
Keir Starmer
Emily Thornberry
John McDonnell
Valerie Vaz
Nicholas Brown
Gareth Thomas
Clive Efford
Albert Owen
Stephen Kinnock
Richard Burden
Karen Buck
Stephen Twigg


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 9:08 pm 
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Simon Jenkins. Never knowingly right.


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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 9:40 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
“Don’t let the people down” reminds me again that I am not considered to be part of “the people”. Which is to say that 63% of “the people” that didn’t vote to lose our relative freedom.


R4 had some questions and answers this morning on what would happen to various British individuals if we left with May's deal or no deal. One was a first year student at a Dutch university, who was facing a pretty big hike in fees for the rest of their course it we left with no deal. Another was a woman whose job took her across borders working in more than one country. The upshot seemed to be she would no longer be able to do this, even with the WA, she would only be able to work in the country she lived in.

This, as far as I'm concerned, is what "letting the people down" really looks like and many will never forgive the Tories for their reckless negligence of their citizen's best interest.

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PostPosted: Mon 14 Jan, 2019 10:29 pm 
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Andrew Adonis
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House of Lords has just rejected Mrs May’s deal by huge majority of 169 (321 votes to 152). Over to the House of Commons tomorrow!


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