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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 6:03 am 
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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 8:22 am 
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Slow hand clap for Watson.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 9:09 am 
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Breaking news (Sky): Scottish Court in Edinburgh rules that the prorogation of Parliament is unlawful.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 9:18 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
Breaking news (Sky): Scottish Court in Edinburgh rules that the prorogation of Parliament is unlawful.


Just imagine if something came along that drove Watson off the front page....

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 9:23 am 
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adam wrote:
PorFavor wrote:
Breaking news (Sky): Scottish Court in Edinburgh rules that the prorogation of Parliament is unlawful.


Just imagine if something came along that drove Watson off the front page....


Speaking of front pages, Nigel Farage has bought the "Express" for the day.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 9:55 am 
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The cast list is a bit sparse this morning.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 10:32 am 
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https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... g-patients


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 10:36 am 
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refitman wrote:
Slow hand clap for Watson.


There. Is. Not. Going. To. Be. Another. Referendum. Without. An. Election. First.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand?


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 11:08 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
The cast list is a bit sparse this morning.

stage fright


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 11:08 am 
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Good afternoon, everyone.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 11:25 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
refitman wrote:
Slow hand clap for Watson.


There. Is. Not. Going. To. Be. Another. Referendum. Without. An. Election. First.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand?


I know. His whole stance is so much gibberish. The only way we can have a referendum before a GE is if the government decides to pursue that option, which isn't likely to happen, but even if it did isn't it already Labour policy to support one so how does that put Watson at odds with the leadership?

And although there is some merit to the idea of resolving Brexit separately, outside a GE campaign, we've had nearly a year to do that since May secured her WA and it's clear the current parliament is not capable of doing that.

Personally I have no idea if a GE will make things better. Quite possibly not. But given the impasse and Johnson's lack of a majority, the only correct and democratic way forward is for the PM to ask for an extension in order to hold a GE and hopefully the opposition will stay united in their plan to try to make that happen.

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 11:31 am 
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I mean even the new LibDem line of "Revoke A50" not only makes more sense, but is less unrealistic.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 11:43 am 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
refitman wrote:
Slow hand clap for Watson.


There. Is. Not. Going. To. Be. Another. Referendum. Without. An. Election. First.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand?
Anything related to Watson obscurely reminds me of what I've observed in our local Labour party branch. While sharing Labour party membership, community, sisterhood/brotherhood and in the end, love in common, some don't share much else but their overriding conviction another at the table is a bonehead. Not all of us are going to like one another. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. That's totally fine. Keep all the Jaffa cakes; give me the flapjacks. Okay, fine. I won't eat a thing just loudly slurp my coffee and scowl.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 11:57 am 
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Willow904 wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:
refitman wrote:
Slow hand clap for Watson.

There. Is. Not. Going. To. Be. Another. Referendum. Without. An. Election. First.

Seriously, how hard is this to understand?

I know. His whole stance is so much gibberish. The only way we can have a referendum before a GE is if the government decides to pursue that option, which isn't likely to happen, but even if it did isn't it already Labour policy to support one so how does that put Watson at odds with the leadership?

And although there is some merit to the idea of resolving Brexit separately, outside a GE campaign, we've had nearly a year to do that since May secured her WA and it's clear the current parliament is not capable of doing that.

Personally I have no idea if a GE will make things better. Quite possibly not. But given the impasse and Johnson's lack of a majority, the only correct and democratic way forward is for the PM to ask for an extension in order to hold a GE and hopefully the opposition will stay united in their plan to try to make that happen.
Yes, agreed. Hopefully, someone will explain this again to Watson. Maybe he just wanted some attention. I'm not condescending, I've just sat around tables with a lot of different people at different times discovering people are fundamentally the same, sometimes irrational and fractious, other times capable of being perfectly reasonable and helpful.

Only the baked goods vary.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 12:05 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
I mean even the new LibDem line of "Revoke A50" not only makes more sense, but is less unrealistic.
cJA stands abruptly, chair knocked over by the force of the move, points a finger at AK and ominously utters: "Now. Let's don't get ugly."


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 12:09 pm 
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Of course I know I've neither the spontaneous, eccentric wit of HindleA or the flamboyant genius of Sky.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 12:10 pm 
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I'll look at the news now.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Quote:
The Inner House of the Court of Session has ruled that the Prime Minister’s advice to HM the Queen that the United Kingdom Parliament should be prorogued from a day between 9 and 12 September until 14 October was unlawful because it had the purpose of stymying Parliament.

All three First Division judges have decided that the PM’s advice to the HM the Queen is justiciable, that it was motivated by the improper purpose of stymying Parliament and that it, and what has followed from it, is unlawful.

Joanna Cherry QC MP and others for Judicial Review

http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/1/0/Home
Isn't there something in Article 50 obliging governments leaving the EU doing so in compliance with constitutional norms?


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 1:01 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
The Inner House of the Court of Session has ruled that the Prime Minister’s advice to HM the Queen that the United Kingdom Parliament should be prorogued from a day between 9 and 12 September until 14 October was unlawful because it had the purpose of stymying Parliament.

All three First Division judges have decided that the PM’s advice to the HM the Queen is justiciable, that it was motivated by the improper purpose of stymying Parliament and that it, and what has followed from it, is unlawful.

Joanna Cherry QC MP and others for Judicial Review

http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/1/0/Home
Isn't there something in Article 50 obliging governments leaving the EU doing so in compliance with constitutional norms?


Yes, but I think it's aimed more at the proper holding of a referendum etc prior to triggering article 50. I'm not sure it would cover the nitty gritty of parliamentary democracy throughout the article 50 period. Parliament did vote to trigger article 50 and crashing out with no deal was a foreseeable risk when they did so. I think we're going to have to sort this one our ourselves!

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Quote:
The Inner House of the Court of Session has ruled that the Prime Minister’s advice to HM the Queen that the United Kingdom Parliament should be prorogued from a day between 9 and 12 September until 14 October was unlawful because it had the purpose of stymying Parliament.

All three First Division judges have decided that the PM’s advice to the HM the Queen is justiciable, that it was motivated by the improper purpose of stymying Parliament and that it, and what has followed from it, is unlawful.

Joanna Cherry QC MP and others for Judicial Review

http://www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/1/0/Home
Isn't there something in Article 50 obliging governments leaving the EU doing so in compliance with constitutional norms?


Yes, but I think it's aimed more at the proper holding of a referendum etc prior to triggering article 50. I'm not sure it would cover the nitty gritty of parliamentary democracy throughout the article 50 period. Parliament did vote to trigger article 50 and crashing out with no deal was a foreseeable risk when they did so. I think we're going to have to sort this one our ourselves!

Isn't it more just that there's something in the EU's Acquis that member countries always act within constitutional norms? (Edited to add - so what are they going to do if we don't? Throw us out?)

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 1:31 pm 
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We need now to reach across party loyalties and demographic differences to explain face to face: what we’re living through is not normal, nor accidental. It’s a fabricated chaos. And the road back to normality lies through getting Johnson out of Downing Street.


Paul Mason in the Guardian - Chaos is being normalised. It is all part of Boris Johnson’s pernicious plan

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 1:34 pm 
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adam wrote:
Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
Isn't there something in Article 50 obliging governments leaving the EU doing so in compliance with constitutional norms?


Yes, but I think it's aimed more at the proper holding of a referendum etc prior to triggering article 50. I'm not sure it would cover the nitty gritty of parliamentary democracy throughout the article 50 period. Parliament did vote to trigger article 50 and crashing out with no deal was a foreseeable risk when they did so. I think we're going to have to sort this one our ourselves!

Isn't it more just that there's something in the EU's Acquis that member countries always act within constitutional norms? (Edited to add - so what are they going to do if we don't? Throw us out?)


Well, they haven't thrown Hungary out yet :?


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 2:44 pm 
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The EU (I'm using this term describing official representative(s) acting on behalf of the 28 member states) may decide given the unprecedented and unlawful actions of what remains of the UK's Tory government requires them doing nothing causing more harm.

It could be the UK remains in the EU until that time UK government, after contemplative isolation upstairs in their room, may then come downstairs and make responsible decisions on behalf of millions of UK-EU citizens.

edited attempting correction of my grammar


Last edited by citizenJA on Wed 11 Sep, 2019 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 2:48 pm 
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Throwing out countries isn't something the EU wants at all.
I'm well aware the EU isn't perfect but the group of nations collectively knows the meaning of some of what's written on the back of my Labour Party membership card.
"...[B]y the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone...".


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 2:55 pm 
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citizenJA joined flythenest 11 September 2014
Happy 5th anniversary, citizenJA!
:rock:


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 3:02 pm 
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Someone wake up Constance, please.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 3:04 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
Someone wake up Constance, please.


I think she's in semi-hibernation. It's a bit parky here.

Edited - what's going on with my brain?


Last edited by PorFavor on Wed 11 Sep, 2019 4:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 3:05 pm 
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She's the best stylist I've ever had dress my hair. I can't do a thing with it.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 3:06 pm 
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The sun is shining nicely and I've got errands to do. I'll look a fright without her help.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 3:13 pm 
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:-


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Tories now saying there will be no pact/deal with Farage and his "party".

Whilst they say lots of things that they contradict later, I wonder if something like private polling has helped cause this stance?


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 6:22 pm 
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HindleA wrote:
:-

:lol:
yep, that was me


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 6:46 pm 
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adam wrote:
(cJA edit)
I don't typically like Mason's work but this piece is persuasive and sound.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 8:25 pm 
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citizenJA wrote:
adam wrote:
(cJA edit)
I don't typically like Mason's work but this piece is persuasive and sound.



Seems to be a bit lacking on foolproof tactics to foil Johnson's pernicious plan, though. Chaos s a lot easier to achieve than order.

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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 8:41 pm 
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Willow904 wrote:
citizenJA wrote:
adam wrote:
(cJA edit)
I don't typically like Mason's work but this piece is persuasive and sound.

Seems to be a bit lacking on foolproof tactics to foil Johnson's pernicious plan, though. Chaos s a lot easier to achieve than order.

Quote:
"...[G]et down to a pub this Friday night, in a place you know there’s going to be support for Johnson, and calmly argue the toss."
Granted, this strategy isn't without potential drawbacks. What I came away with is to look beyond the confected chaos. Don't rise to the bait. Don't panic. Stay together.


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PostPosted: Wed 11 Sep, 2019 8:41 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA


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