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 Post subject: Thursday 4th June 2020
PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 6:08 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 9:19 am 
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Good morning.

I don't know if we had this from Progressive Pulse linked a couple of weeks ago, I like the first part where he goes through the British exceptionalism mindset, which was probably the prevailing attitude of the cabinet at the time.

Covid-19 How is the UK doing?

This response from btl is a concise summary.

Quote:
The failure of the SAGE Committee is one that many will have difficulty with, with politicians repeatedly saying they were at all times being guided by “the science”. This was and remains a complete smokescreen to deflect responsibility. The composition of SAGE was unsuited to the task at hand – – it had no experts in public health or infectious diseases. It was not truly independent, with most members dependent on the govt for employment. Its recommendations were constrained by policy choices already made for ideological reasons and their outcomes: effective defunding of public health following top down reorganization of NHS; prioritizing Brexit over acting on the Project Cygnus pandemic simulation recommendations (resulting in shortages of PPE & ventilators & inability to get testing up and running efficiently).


A more recent update.

Covid-19 Is the UK Response Improving?

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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 11:39 am 
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Yes, also remember the line - cheerfully repeated by some "journalists" - that the UK was following a "scientific" approach, not like the continentals with their "populist" lockdowns.

How is that one bearing up right now?


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 12:37 pm 
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Very good and decent intervention by one family.

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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 12:38 pm 
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They say this sort of thing every time the predictable ghouls dredge his name up, to little effect thus far it appears.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 1:51 pm 
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gilsey wrote:
Good morning.
I don't know if we had this from Progressive Pulse linked a couple of weeks ago, I like the first part where he goes through the British exceptionalism mindset, which was probably the prevailing attitude of the cabinet at the time.
Covid-19 How is the UK doing?
This response from btl is a concise summary.
Quote:
The failure of the SAGE Committee is one that many will have difficulty with, with politicians repeatedly saying they were at all times being guided by “the science”. This was and remains a complete smokescreen to deflect responsibility. The composition of SAGE was unsuited to the task at hand – – it had no experts in public health or infectious diseases. It was not truly independent, with most members dependent on the govt for employment. Its recommendations were constrained by policy choices already made for ideological reasons and their outcomes: effective defunding of public health following top down reorganization of NHS; prioritizing Brexit over acting on the Project Cygnus pandemic simulation recommendations (resulting in shortages of PPE & ventilators & inability to get testing up and running efficiently).

A more recent update.

Covid-19 Is the UK Response Improving?


Thanks for that most excellent link, Disaster Capitalism making great progress in USUK ! First half is about covid , stats, and the Johnson government's murderous record, and then very good on the deadly nature of the Cummings Programme.

Channel 4 Dispatches @C4Dispatches

Quote:
Delays at the heart of government may have risked thousands of lives, #Dispatches can reveal.

Scientists advising the government warned nearly a month before lockdown that as many as 500,000 people may lose their lives if the virus spread unchecked across the country.


https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/status ... 5742637057

From the link --
Quote:
A no deal Brexit, if it happens, may turn out to be a “Black Monday” moment when the UK spectacularly crashed out of the ERM and the Tory poll lead never recovered. It may well be that the Tories reputation may be trashed for at least a generation. The worry is that with a five-year fixed-term parliament and a large majority, the damage may be so great that it may take decades to recover.

Una Mullally again:

The good news is, there is a way out. Throughout history, empires fall, societies implode. But the process of rebuilding can only happen if there is a period of profound self-reflection, a real and honest acknowledgement of who you are, and why you are. So stop the “shock” at the latest scandal, and start looking in the mirror.

Is it really necessary for the UK to experience at home the neoliberalism it inflicted on others in order to see itself clearly in the mirror, as it did when abolishing slavery?


So it's not all doom and gloom :)


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 2:00 pm 
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Good afternoon, everyone.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 2:16 pm 
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The latest from No 10 is that Alok Sharma still hasn't had a result from his covid-19 test, which ties in rather neatly with Keir Starmer's questions at PMQs yesterday about the percentage of tests being processed within 24hrs (unanswered by Johnson, of course). It also uncovers an interesting point. Does a close contact, such as Johnson was with Sharma, have to isolate for 14 days of they've already had coronavirus? The government guidelines don't seem to even have anticipated this let alone provided an answer.

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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 2:40 pm 
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Predictably perhaps, the Number 10 response is "no they don't".


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 4:42 pm 
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Quote:
Q: Will rail workers have to police this new face coverings rule? And will people be fined if they don’t comply?
Shapps says it will be a condition of travel. The government has worked closely with the unions, he says. He says it is in everyone’s interests to make this work.
---
Shapps says face coverings will be available at stations for people who have forgotten. And volunteers will be there to remind people.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/li ... eb54d98e28
Volunteers?


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 4:49 pm 
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And will they be available free of charge, or only if you pay for them?


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 4:53 pm 
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Quote:
Q: Are tourist locations at particular risk from coronavirus when lockdown is relaxed?

Shapps says, to answer that question, we need to know how the virus will continue to spread. There is a danger of people getting complacent, he says. But the virus is still very much with us.
oh god help us all


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 4:56 pm 
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Shapps's press conference was confusing, inaccurate and horrifying


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 5:31 pm 
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Same as usual for these affairs recently, then.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 5:43 pm 
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AnatolyKasparov wrote:
Same as usual for these affairs recently, then.

The mandatory face mask usage on public transportation announcement concerns me. Government offloads responsibility onto individuals without making sure individuals have resources enough making it a reasonable expectation.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 6:00 pm 
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There are lots of opportunities to be shocked when reading this...

NHS test-and-trace app 'not fully operational until September'

https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... oronavirus

Quote:
A leaked message from Rupert Soames, Serco’s chief executive, also revealed his own concerns about the initial months of the programme. Serco is among a number of companies that are recruiting, coaching and managing contact tracers who do not have clinical training.

They have taken the bulk of the work, recruiting 10,000 of the new 25,000 contact tracers after being awarded an initial fee of £45.8m, which could rise to £90m.

In an email forwarded to staff, which was then immediately recalled, a message from Soames said: “There are a few, a noisy few, who would like to see us fail because we are private companies delivering a public service. I very much doubt that this is going to evolve smoothly, so they will have plenty of opportunity to say I told you so.”

It continued: “If it succeeds … it will go a long way in cementing the position of the private sector companies in the public sector supply chain. Some of the naysayers recognise this, which is why they will take every opportunity to undermine us.”


:fire:

But of course it's still the NHS track and trace system...

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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 7:14 pm 
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But the important thing is, getting a new royal yacht is being floated again! YIPPEE!!


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 7:20 pm 
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I was going to say that if ever there was a man promoted beyond his intelligence it's Digby Jones...

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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 8:01 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
There are lots of opportunities to be shocked when reading this...
NHS test-and-trace app 'not fully operational until September'
https://www.theguardian.com/society/202 ... oronavirus
Quote:
A leaked message from Rupert Soames, Serco’s chief executive, also revealed his own concerns about the initial months of the programme. Serco is among a number of companies that are recruiting, coaching and managing contact tracers who do not have clinical training.
They have taken the bulk of the work, recruiting 10,000 of the new 25,000 contact tracers after being awarded an initial fee of £45.8m, which could rise to £90m.
In an email forwarded to staff, which was then immediately recalled, a message from Soames said: “There are a few, a noisy few, who would like to see us fail because we are private companies delivering a public service. I very much doubt that this is going to evolve smoothly, so they will have plenty of opportunity to say I told you so.”
It continued: “If it succeeds … it will go a long way in cementing the position of the private sector companies in the public sector supply chain. Some of the naysayers recognise this, which is why they will take every opportunity to undermine us.”

:fire:
But of course it's still the NHS track and trace system...


Quote:
“” They have taken the bulk of the work, recruiting 10,000 of the new 25,000 contact tracers after being awarded an initial fee of £45.8m, which could rise to £90m. “”

One Incandescent Frog here !

Please compare with rural France :— My GP is 5 kms down the road, nearest path lab doing testing in a town pop 10,000 is 18 kms**, up to 20 contact tracers in county capital Saint Lô pop 20,000 and 40 kms away, temporarily seconded when necessary from CPAM which is the NI/social security org .

COST — a few peanuts !

The English equivalent of all that exists , but has been deliberately replaced by the Serco’s.

** France was in many ways almost as shit useless as the UK, but in the end gets some stuff right !


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 8:04 pm 
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FRESH CRACE 'ere !

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -face-mask


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 8:30 pm 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
There are lots of opportunities to be shocked when reading this...


Even if Serco managed to spread Coronavirus with their inept track and tracing and their Chief Executive went on TV and danced while laughing and spitting in the face of pensioners I wouldn't be shocked.

I'm passed shocking.

I am all shocked out.

And it seems I'm not alone.

Newsnight confirmed last night that according to ONS data the UK now, officially, has more excess deaths than all the other EU countries combined. At any other time, under any other government that would be a national scandal. Their would be outrage and campaigns for investigations and resignations. But under Johnson, with a fawning right wing press and cowering, timorous BBC? Nothing. Just a brief mention on a late night news programme then we're all expected to carry on as if it isn't happening.

Shock, it seems, is a thing of the past.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 8:49 pm 
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Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
RogerOThornhill wrote:
There are lots of opportunities to be shocked when reading this...

Even if Serco managed to spread Coronavirus with their inept track and tracing and their Chief Executive went on TV and danced while laughing and spitting in the face of pensioners I wouldn't be shocked.
I'm passed shocking.
I am all shocked out.
And it seems I'm not alone.
Newsnight confirmed last night that according to ONS data the UK now, officially, has more excess deaths than all the other EU countries combined. At any other time, under any other government that would be a national scandal. Their would be outrage and campaigns for investigations and resignations. But under Johnson, with a fawning right wing press and cowering, timorous BBC? Nothing. Just a brief mention on a late night news programme then we're all expected to carry on as if it isn't happening.

Shock, it seems, is a thing of the past.

A little patience , dear Sky, sometimes change is slow like a glacier, othertimes a fcking hurricane :)


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 9:13 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
A little patience , dear Sky, sometimes change is slow like a glacier, othertimes a fcking hurricane :)


They have an 80 seat majority, and the armour of brexit which means Johnson could fire cute mewling kittens from a trebuchet for a laugh and half the population would cheer him on.

If a disastrously inept response to a pandemic resulting in over 60,000 deaths can't even get rid of his special advisor Johnson is going nowhere.

There was a lot of wishful thinking about Trump not lasting a full term, but if his Presidency has taught us anything it's that no matter how useless, offensive, deranged and witless a President/Prime Minister is, if there are enough powerful people with a vested interest in maintaining them in office there's absolutely fuck all anyone can do about it. The only people who could bring Johnson down are the Tories themselves and he kicked out the smart ones and made the rest sign loyalty pledges.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 9:24 pm 
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Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
frog222 wrote:
A little patience , dear Sky, sometimes change is slow like a glacier, othertimes a fcking hurricane :)

They have an 80 seat majority, and the armour of brexit which means Johnson could fire cute mewling kittens from a trebuchet for a laugh and half the population would cheer him on.
If a disastrously inept response to a pandemic resulting in over 60,000 deaths can't even get rid of his special advisor Johnson is going nowhere.
There was a lot of wishful thinking about Trump not lasting a full term, but if his Presidency has taught us anything it's that no matter how useless, offensive, deranged and witless a President/Prime Minister is, if there are enough powerful people with a vested interest in maintaining them in office there's absolutely fuck all anyone can do about it. The only people who could bring Johnson down are the Tories themselves and he kicked out the smart ones and made the rest sign loyalty pledges.

Sky, of course I know that too . But ...

as pointed out in that article (or was it the comments?) you get a 'turning point' when ALL changes . Who would ever have thought that the South would become more liberal on divorce than the prod North of Ireland ?

Or that they'd have a brown homosexual PM ?

'InterestingTimes' makes me LARF ! Out of pure cussedness I want to survive to see what happens :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 9:33 pm 
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TRUMP ........................... and the BIBLE !

https://twitter.com/EricMcCormack/statu ... 7807108096


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 10:25 pm 
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I've never checked the QT twitter before during the programme and I won't be doing it again. Holy shit, what a sewer.

Anyway I think Nadhim Zahawi is having a psychotic breakdown.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 10:29 pm 
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And now he's raging against the BBC for quoting the ONS.

The veins on his head are really standing out.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 10:32 pm 
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Evening all

I have shared this before but will do so again as it is very useful as a data source

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

This gives an idea of the excess death rates across a number of European countries and the comparison with other years


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 10:36 pm 
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Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 10:45 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Evening all

I have shared this before but will do so again as it is very useful as a data source

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

This gives an idea of the excess death rates across a number of European countries and the comparison with other years

OY shithead , where the fuck is our " QT Report " ?
Peeple around that Europe have been awaiting it .


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 10:45 pm 
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howsillyofme1 wrote:
Evening all

I have shared this before but will do so again as it is very useful as a data source

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

This gives an idea of the excess death rates across a number of European countries and the comparison with other years


It's a great source.

Look at the excess mortality for 15-44 year olds in England compared to anywhere else, it's horrendous.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 10:48 pm 
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frog222 wrote:
OY shithead , where the fuck is our " QT Report " ?
Peeple around that Europe have been awaiting it .


Was that supposed to be directed at myself rather than Howsillyofme1?

If so I'll do it in a bit. It won't take long.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 11:29 pm 
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QT report.

Tonight Question Time came from two places, the real world and the happy clappy la-la land which Nadhim Zahawi appears to inhabit.

In the real world, where all the other panelists and the virtual audience live, the UK has the second highest excess death rate in the world, exceeding that of the rest of Europe combined, with an utterly inept government. That government, due to a variety of factors, ranging from an ideological hatred of the public sector to them just being fucking useless, has overseen the deaths of over 60,000 people. In order to combat this they've launched a track and trace system outsourced to private sector contractors with an appaling record in providing public services (see Probation service, etc), overseen by a Tory Baroness who while in charge of TalkTalk failed to provide even the most basic level of data protection for her customers resulting in 150,000 people having their unencrypted personal and banking details being stolen.

In Nadhim Zahawi's happy clappy la-la land everything is fine. We should be proud of our heroic government's efforts, everything has been done perfectly at exactly the right time. The BBC are big meanies for using a source of statistics his own government uses regularly. Any criticism of his government is an unpatriotic put down of everyone in the country who has had any role in combating the virus. All the while the vein on his head gets bigger and bigger like the boil on Richard E Grant's neck in How to get ahead in advertising, until the vein takes over but unlike the boil it makes him a better person and he awakens. And looks around him and say's 'Oh fuck, is this the real world?' And he feels shame.


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 11:39 pm 
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But he keeps his horses warm. How can you not see the good in him?


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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 11:53 pm 
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PostPosted: Thu 04 Jun, 2020 11:55 pm 
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Further to RogerOThornhill's post -

Quote:
NHS test-and-trace system 'not fully operational until September'

Exclusive: chief operating officer told staff programme would be imperfect at launch


https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/04/nhs-track-and-trace-system-not-expected-to-be-operating-fully-until-september-coronavirus


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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun, 2020 12:04 am 
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PorFavor wrote:
But he keeps his horses warm. How can you not see the good in him?


I do like a warm horse. Especially if it costs more than us sick and disabled scum get in a year.

At least then I can see where my suffering is going.

And feed it a carrot.


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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun, 2020 12:22 am 
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun, 2020 12:27 am 
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That's the only horse song I know and even that's a result of 70's kids tv.

Oh no wait there's this one of course...



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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun, 2020 12:36 am 
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Doesn't work for me either.


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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun, 2020 1:23 am 
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No horses I'm afraid.



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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun, 2020 1:30 am 
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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun, 2020 1:37 am 
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Not a Led Zeppelin fan, but I like this. Even if I am a cat person (not in the Val Lewton style).



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PostPosted: Fri 05 Jun, 2020 1:38 am 
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Flowers and pizza?

Why would I say no?


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