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 Post subject: Thursday 25th June 2020
PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 5:36 am 
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Morning all.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:12 am 
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Morning all.

Quote:
Adam Bienkov
@AdamBienkov
Asked how ordinary members of the public can influence planning decisions in the same way Richard Desmond was able to, Business Minister Nadhim Zahawi says they should go to Conservative party fundraisers and talk to Tory MPs.


Zahawi: "If people go to a fundraiser in their local area, Doncaster, for the Conservative Party, they’ll be sitting next to MPs and other people in their local authority. People can interact with different parts of the authority."


Well, there you go...

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:52 am 
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IFS
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The benefits system in 2020 provides less support to workless households than in 2011, despite temporary increases due to the #coronavirus pandemic.

Workless households are on average entitled to around £1,600 (10%) less per year than in 2011.

https://twitter.com/TheIFS/status/1276040217733009408

Living standards, poverty and inequality in the UK: 2020

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 10:14 am 
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RogerOThornhill wrote:
Morning all.

Quote:
Adam Bienkov
@AdamBienkov
Asked how ordinary members of the public can influence planning decisions in the same way Richard Desmond was able to, Business Minister Nadhim Zahawi says they should go to Conservative party fundraisers and talk to Tory MPs.


Zahawi: "If people go to a fundraiser in their local area, Doncaster, for the Conservative Party, they’ll be sitting next to MPs and other people in their local authority. People can interact with different parts of the authority."


Well, there you go...


Thing is, he quite likely does actually believe that.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 11:19 am 
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In a civilised society, influencing* a planning decision outwith the formal consultation process would be considered corrupt and wrong.

Here we are, which is surely not where we used to be.




* or attempting to influence

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 11:32 am 
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It still is considered that, by most people.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 12:38 pm 
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This is what religion and Facebook does to your brain.

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This angry Florida woman argued today against the mask mandate, while bringing up the devil, 5G, Bill Gates, Hillary Clinton, "the pedophiles" and the deep state.


https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1275912010555932672


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 12:48 pm 
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That is Trump's "base", everybody.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 2:13 pm 
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Quote:
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@bbclaurak
Starmer sacks Rebecca Long Bailey
3:05 PM · Jun 25, 2020·Twitter Web App

Oh

Quote:
Labour’s Rebecca Long-Bailey distances herself from article claiming ‘Israeli secret services’ taught George Floyd police to kneel on people’s necks

Ah.

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 2:17 pm 
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Its a fact that several US police forces - Minnesota's included - received training from Israel.

This is Starmer's first major mistake since taking the leadership.

Also find it hard to believe that his deputy will approve - as they say, "watch this space".


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 4:06 pm 
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The dispute appears to focus on whether or not the Israeli forces taught neck kneeling as a tactic during the seminars, which they have explicitly denied.

[edited for grammar]


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 4:29 pm 
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:rofl:

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 4:50 pm 
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SH2 wrote:
Good for Starmer. The very first thing he has done or said of any note.

A crystal clear example of an antisemitic trope (despite the view above) being shared with apparent approval by a member of the shadow cabinet.

I suspect he was also looking for an excuse to get rid of her, she is completely useless after all, and so two birds with one stone.

Win win.


Your approval is predictable - and indicates why he was wrong.

(and again, stating facts is not antisemitic - in any circumstances)


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 5:00 pm 
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Incidentally, I do not think this is a "crystal clear example of an anti-semitic trope".

This is a suggestion that the tactics used by the Israeli defense forces were taught to American police forces.

To extrapolate from criticism of Israeli defence force tactics to something anti-semitic and critical of Jewish people is a leap that you will need to make yourself, in your own head, which says more about your antisemitic views than anyone else's.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 5:12 pm 
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https://twitter.com/JulianSmithUK/statu ... 6317952002

:D

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 5:22 pm 
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SH2 wrote:
The Campaign Group of Labour MPs have requested a meeting with Keir Starmer about the sacking of Rebecca Long-Bailey.

The request has been declined.


And this is not a great look. At all.

If it is that obvious and justifiable a decision, Starmer should have no problems putting their minds at rest.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 6:05 pm 
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No, it is you who need to have something explained to you.

To equate Israel and Jews is anti-Semitic in itself, according to the IHRA working definition of anti-Semitism.

Any extrapolation of what was written in that article about Israeli "secret service tactics" to mean something about Jewish people themselves has been done by others outside of what was written, and is by the working definition anti-semitic.

Stephen Bush has made that very same leap in the article you quote:

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Why is Peake, a British actor, singling out the world’s only Jewish majority state as the point of origin for the killing of an African-American?


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 6:31 pm 
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PF - how’s the IT business?

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 7:14 pm 
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I think you have missed the point SH2.

Bush's entire justification of why her article was anti-semitic (although he does not really given any plausible explanation, this is almost mentioned in passing), it that it criticises Israel (via a criticism of their security force's tactics).
Bush then notes that Israel is "the world’s only Jewish majority state", and that's it.
Nowhere in the rest of the article does he explain why else he thinks it is anti-semitic.
He is the one equating criticism of Israel with criticism of Jews.

Now it may be that Peake singled out Israel because she has equated Israel and Jewish people.
But we don't know that from the article, because there is no connection made within.

Why do you think the article was anti-semitic?

Edited for grammar and emphasis (and then spelling)


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 7:30 pm 
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My thoughts were:

Lots of people will say he was just waiting for an excuse

Given the history of the past 4 years, she should be more careful

and later: if the Board of Deputies approve of Starmer's action, it was the wrong thing to do.



In any case those of us who despair at Labour infighting, despair.

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 7:34 pm 
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I hadn't anticipated that people on both sides would say he was waiting for an excuse, mind.

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 7:37 pm 
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Quote:
Christina Patterson
@queenchristina_
I’m shocked and baffled. ⁦@Jeremy_Hunt literally called for weekly testing of health workers and then voted against it. I cannot begin to imagine the psychological contortions you’d have to go through to do this. Unless tribalism trumps - well, life

'shocked and baffled'

:roll:

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 7:55 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
PF - how’s the IT business?


Keeping 2 metres away from the keyboard was cramping my style a little. I'll have to see how it goes now.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 8:48 pm 
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I think you all know my opinion of Rebecca Long-Bailey as a politician, as a human being I'm sure she's absolutely lovely, but when it comes to politics she's hopeless.

But today it seems to me she's been treated very badly. Nothing she or Maxine Peake said was anti-semitic in any way shape or form. It may have been factually incorrect, but it certainly wasn't anti-semitic. What clearly is anti-semitic is equating the state of Israel with all Jews when most Jews don't even live there. I wonder how much a West Bank settler has in common with a New York Jew from Brooklyn or a British Jew in Gateshead and yet according to the right we should regard them all to be exactly the same because they're Jewish. That is outright racism.

I can see why Starmer and those around him have taken a zero tolerance approach to the issue and Long-Bailey has had to be sacrificed in the name of realpolitik but it doesn't make it right. In fact from the viewpoint of non Labour member who thinks Starmer has been a step in the right direction this feels very wrong.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:01 pm 
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Please don't engage.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:05 pm 
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Is it a bit early for music?

Maybe it's the crossover point between politics and music, in which case this will fit nicely:



It's by the same person who made the video I posted last night by the way.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:14 pm 
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From the Stephen Bush article.

Quote:
The trouble with Peake’s comments was that she singled out Israel – suggesting that the technique which lead to the death of Floyd was learnt in Israel.

Why should Israel’s security services be treated as more responsible for the killing than those of the United Kingdom or France, or any of the countless forces that use aggressive restraint techniques?


Because we know for a fact that the Israeli police have trained American police forces, maybe not to kneel on someones neck, but the close co-operation isn't in question. Had British or French police forces been involved in training American police officers to the same extent then this would be a valid question, but they haven't so it isn't.

We currently have the RAF providing 'support and training' for the Saudi air force. If a Yemeni was to lose his temper after being bombed by a British trained Saudi pilot and exclaim 'Those bloody British' and shake his fist would that be racist? Would I, as a British citizen, take this sleight to heart and be deeply offended? Of course not, the idea is absurd, as absurd as claiming waving your fist at the Israeli police in this case, rightly or wrongly, is anti-semitic.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:20 pm 
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refitman wrote:
Please don't engage.


Sorry, I had to do something to distract myself from the Scousers winning the league.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:36 pm 
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I think what Starmer's done is to closely and directly follow Johnson's lead with Cummings and Jenrick and so on - he's looked his opponents in the eye and said 'Fuck you, I can do whatever I want and there's nothing you can do about it'.

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:45 pm 
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I wasn't sure if I could be arsed to watch Question Time as it's a 'young person' special and they'll be talking about those rap singers on Top of the Pops.

But Jess Phillips is on and I know how much you all love her so I'll give it a go.



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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:51 pm 
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Because my concentration span is limited forgive the mindless intervention, but since my workplace transferred to my home I have been obliged to access multiple new softwares for the purposes of various kinds of online communication including skype, skype for business, Microsoft teams, jitsu, zoom, big blue button, P2Go, YouTube live, WebEx, and something else I’ve forgotten the name of. Jitsu was pretty good for video conferencing. I particularly enjoyed the feature of being able to kick other people out - even though I wasn’t the host. Crazy.

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:54 pm 
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tinyclanger2 wrote:
Because my concentration span is limited forgive the mindless intervention, but since my workplace transferred to my home I have been obliged to access multiple new softwares for the purposes of various kinds of online communication including skype, skype for business, Microsoft teams, jitsu, zoom, big blue button, P2Go, YouTube live, WebEx, and something else I’ve forgotten the name of. Jitsu was pretty good for video conferencing. I particularly enjoyed the feature of being able to kick other people out - even though I wasn’t the host. Crazy.


I managed to successfully convince my school to not use zoom for live streaming with students, on the grounds that they said they'd improved their security but they'd said that before when they knew it wasn't true, and because whilst it was reasonably unlikely that anything would go wrong,if it did it would go the kind of very very wrong that would get in the papers. All of our school stuff is going on on Teams. Which is a bit shit but there you go.

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 9:56 pm 
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Loads of sci-fi on Jess's bookshelf, good stuff.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 10:13 pm 
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Psycho Covidiot lad opens the questions saying everything should be opened up and we've all been under state control and it's time we all went back to normal. The rest of the under 30 virtual audience who comment disagree, one has had her father die and another knows 10 people who have died, while others live with vulnerable people or are vulnerable themselves. Psycho Covidiot lad is left looking like a dick.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 10:29 pm 
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adam wrote:
[I managed to successfully convince my school to not use zoom for live streaming with students, on the grounds that they said they'd improved their security but they'd said that before when they knew it wasn't true, and because whilst it was reasonably unlikely that anything would go wrong,if it did it would go the kind of very very wrong that would get in the papers. All of our school stuff is going on on Teams. Which is a bit shit but there you go.


Well done. When I visited my teacher brother a couple of weeks ago he was using Zoom with some of his students. I asked him what he knew about Zoom and his answer was nothing. It constantly amazes me how many people and organisations use technology they have absolutely no knowledge of just because it's convenient.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 11:29 pm 
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Question Time report this evening comes from 'young people' land.

For the Tories we had Stephen Barclay. Tonight's programme was pretty heartfelt and genuine, apart from one obvious Tory activist headcase in the virtual audience the rest of the panel and the audience seemed honest in their opinions and enquiries, and then we have Steve. Nothing Steve said was genuine, it was written all over his face as it contorted itself to appear concerned and understanding. When asked what thing he'd like to keep from the lockdown he said 'the speed of government getting food parcels out to the vulnerable' with a kind of rictus grimace. Everything about him was fake and the younger audience was a damn sight better at seeing through him than the older and allegedly wiser clowns who voted for him.

For Labour we had Jess Phillips. I like Jess. I know she's a bit of a persona non grata round here but tonight she did what she does best. She was herself. From the government's handling of Coronavirus to social housing she gave answers the left (of the Labour Party) would struggle to disagree with, but most of all, unlike Mr Barclay she seemed human and humane and honest.

For whatever reason we had Theo Paphitis. Now he might have voted for Brexit but I like Theo and when the Tory scrote at the start said we should relax the lockdown entirely and we'd been living under state control he shot him down in flames and pointed out he'd probably have been dead without the lockdown. He also advocated for state intervention for jobs for 'young people' because it was a state subsidy that had got him his first job.

For some other reason we had George the Poet. Presumably because lots of 'young people' read poetry. I would hope not by George. Because throughout the programme he was incoherent, factually wrong on a number of occasions and actually made me feel a little bit concerned for his wellbeing.

What was most heartening was hearing from an audience under 30 and thinking maybe were not so fucked after all.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 11:38 pm 
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Image

I'm seeing everything from Iain M Banks to Asimov.


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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 11:42 pm 
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Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
Psycho Covidiot lad opens the questions saying everything should be opened up and we've all been under state control and it's time we all went back to normal. The rest of the under 30 virtual audience who comment disagree, one has had her father die and another knows 10 people who have died, while others live with vulnerable people or are vulnerable themselves. Psycho Covidiot lad is left looking like a dick.

There’s a school in Ormesby on the outskirts of M’bro where 40 pupils have lost at least one relative.

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PostPosted: Thu 25 Jun, 2020 11:58 pm 
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Isn't that fairly usual for Middlesbrough?


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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 12:14 am 
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 12:47 am 
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 12:51 am 
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Curious my brain feels impeded and yet I want to wave my extremities around in a happy manner.


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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 12:53 am 
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Tastefully of course.


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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 12:57 am 
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 1:04 am 
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 1:13 am 
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 1:20 am 
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Night night.


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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 1:44 am 
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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 1:49 am 
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Ahem.



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PostPosted: Fri 26 Jun, 2020 1:54 am 
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What the fuck do I know?

Dimishing returns.


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