Wednesday 10th February 2021

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refitman
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Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Good morning.

Thinktank critical of NHS Covid response has links to Hancock

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... to-hancock" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Written by Dr Kristian Niemietz, the IEA’s head of political economy, it says: “There is no rational basis for the adulation the NHS is currently receiving, and no reason to be ‘grateful’ for the fact that we have it. It should go without saying that if the UK did not have the NHS it would not have no healthcare system. It would have a different healthcare system.”

After suggesting possible alternative systems used overseas, such as insurance-based models, it adds: “There is no guarantee that this would have served the UK better during the pandemic, but there is certainly no reason to believe that it would have done any worse. There is nothing special about the NHS, neither during this pandemic, nor at any other time.
No surprise to see who wrote the report as he seems to delight in winding people up.

But that bit I highlighted is illuminating. I've yet to see in any of these "we should do this instead of the NHS" any evidence of what it would do to patient outcomes. Probably because the only impact would be to shovel money into private hands e.g. insurance companies.

And there is never any indication on how much additional admin would cost.

Funny that...
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by gilsey »

Brian Klaas
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When it comes to vaccine rollouts, Britain shows the potential of an efficient, centralized system. While Americans are signing up for parallel vaccine waiting lists and wasting days on hold or crashing websites, the NHS just texts you when it's your turn.
I assume the IEA didn't mention that.

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gilsey
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by gilsey »

Incidentally, my bro in Florida did get his jab last week.

Mr gilsey gets his on Friday, weather permitting.
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by gilsey »

Thread on NHS reorganisation.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nigel Edwards
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The pattern is that the enthusiasts for reform were often equally enthusiastic last time. Failing to learn to adapt to these tensions will mean we go round this loop again sooner than we might wish. 11/11
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

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" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:D
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Willow904
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by Willow904 »

And there is never any indication on how much additional admin would cost.
For some reason I've got an additional cost of 4% on top based on the German system in my head? Anyway, the German system is certainly very good, but they spend about $1,000 dollars per head more than us. Who's to say we wouldn't achieve similar or better outcomes if we spent the same on the NHS. Certainly I don't see how we can afford German standard healthcare if we can't afford what we currently spend on the NHS as we are repeatedly being told. Also, off the top of my head, I think some Scandanavian countries and Italy have nationalised primary care, while ours is in the private sector. It's weird how this is overlooked when people are suggesting we should change how we deliver healthcare to be more in line with other countries. Other countries all have very different systems from each other, so which other system specifically is the "right" system?
I think the line about other systems not being better or worse is the most telling bit though as, in terms of Europe at least, this is undoubtedly very true. The NHS may be no better but it is also no worse - so what would be the benefit of investing huge sums of money to completely reform our current universal healthcare system to produce a completely different universal healthcare system that's no better or worse than the one we currently have?!
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AnatolyKasparov
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

One undoubted plus from the Corbyn years is that they cleared out many of the very worst people from the PLP.
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RogerOThornhill
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Shame they didn't throw this one out as well.

" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The utter shamelessness of it.
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Well that prompted my comment - she's not an MP any more (or indeed still in the party)
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by gilsey »

Jenrick going out of his way to prove my assertion that the worst cabinet minister is the one you're currently watching/listening to.
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by gilsey »

Chris McKeon
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Mr Jenrick: Insurance premium rises of more than 1,000% (like those at the Decks in Runcorn) are "completely out of kilter" with the stats that say only 10 people died in high rise fires last year.

Still nothing about any action to make insurance premiums affordable.
I think I heard him then compare that 10 deaths with road accidents. FFS.
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Also worth pointing out that the reason insurance premiums are going up is not because of the risk to people's lives.

What the insurance companies are worried about is having to pay for the buildings to be rebuilt.
After they've burnt down, presumably.

Words fail.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

I don't want to alarm anybody but I've just been out and there's a big glowing thing in the sky brightly illuminating everything on the ground. I've heard tales of people seeing this thing in the distant past and worshipping it as a god. In fact one tribal chief painted himself orange in an effort to demonstrate that he shared the power of this luminous mystery.

Of course being an empirical man of science I scoff at such superstition. It's quite obviously a perfectly natural bubble of phlogiston that will dissipate at dusk.
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

The other thing is, its still bloody freezing despite this!
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GetYou
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by GetYou »

GIANT NUCLEAR EXPLOSION IN THE SKY SHOCKA!

Ahem, as you were.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

SGO - when I come for the live zazz on the Clanger post-corona UK tour - don't forget that I get to have half an hour experiencing the world through the medium of your brain.
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tinyclanger2
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Anyone seen "Blown Away" (American glassblowing version of the Great British Sewing Bee).
I love it!
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Oops sorry CANADIAN.
(As in as Canadian as possible under the circumstances).
Sorry Canadia.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Did anyone else watch Hercules and Xena Warrior Princess in the Nineties? Well Kevin Sorbo (Hercules) is now a sad member of the Trumpist cult, while Lucy Lawless (Xena) is a Greenpeace activist and all round fabulous human being. Which led inevitably to this epic confrontation after Trump's minions invaded the Capitol building and Sorbo tried to claim they were 'Antifa'.

https://twitter.com/RealLucyLawless/sta ... wsrc%5Etfw

In a response to some other idiot saying 'Do these look like Trump supporters? Or Leftist agitators disguised as Trump supporters...'

Sorbo responds 'They don’t look like patriots to me...'

Before once again getting his arse well and truly handed to him by the mighty warrior princess.
Lucy Lawless
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·
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No, Peanut. They are not Patriots. They are your flying monkeys,homegrown terrorists, QAnon actors. They are the douchebags that go out and do the evil bidding of people like you who like to wind them up like toys and let them do their worst.
Much like their battle for ratings Kevin clearly came off worst in this encounter and now people keep calling him 'peanut' on Twitter.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

tinyclanger2 wrote:don't forget that I get to have half an hour experiencing the world through the medium of your brain.
Get me a decent bottle of wine and a tube of sour cream and onion Pringles and you can do what you like.

Fair warning though, if it's an afternoon at the moment you're most likely to experience someone watching Judge Judy looking to see if there are any hot women in the audience.
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refitman
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by refitman »

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Did anyone else watch Hercules and Xena Warrior Princess in the Nineties? Well Kevin Sorbo (Hercules) is now a sad member of the Trumpist cult, while Lucy Lawless (Xena) is a Greenpeace activist and all round fabulous human being. Which led inevitably to this epic confrontation after Trump's minions invaded the Capitol building and Sorbo tried to claim they were 'Antifa'.

https://twitter.com/RealLucyLawless/sta ... wsrc%5Etfw

In a response to some other idiot saying 'Do these look like Trump supporters? Or Leftist agitators disguised as Trump supporters...'

Sorbo responds 'They don’t look like patriots to me...'

Before once again getting his arse well and truly handed to him by the mighty warrior princess.
Lucy Lawless
@RealLucyLawless
·
7 Jan
No, Peanut. They are not Patriots. They are your flying monkeys,homegrown terrorists, QAnon actors. They are the douchebags that go out and do the evil bidding of people like you who like to wind them up like toys and let them do their worst.
Much like their battle for ratings Kevin clearly came off worst in this encounter and now people keep calling him 'peanut' on Twitter.
Sorbo is full fundie as well, starring in God's Not Dead.

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tinyclanger2
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:
tinyclanger2 wrote:don't forget that I get to have half an hour experiencing the world through the medium of your brain.
Get me a decent bottle of wine and a tube of sour cream and onion Pringles and you can do what you like.

Fair warning though, if it's an afternoon at the moment you're most likely to experience someone watching Judge Judy looking to see if there are any hot women in the audience.
I'll just make sure it's not an afternoon.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

tinyclanger2 wrote:Anyone seen "Blown Away" (American glassblowing version of the Great British Sewing Bee).
I love it!
Sadly not, but I will have a look. Have you seen 'Forged in Fire'? It's a bit like the Bake Off but with Trump supporters making knives.

I liked that pottery one with Sarah Cox. I think it went to CH4 but because their online player thing is so bloody awful I only ever watched it when it was on the BBC.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

refitman wrote:Sorbo is full fundie as well
Ah but is he? There are accusations that he's a 'fake Christian' because he only started espousing evangelism and making the straight to DVD god flicks after his career tanked and he couldn't get any other work. Something he blames on being blacklisted for his conservative views or Lucy Lawless stole his show after sleeping with the producer or some other shit because, as seems quite common amongst certain right wing types, nothing is ever his fault.

I've noticed that the use of the term 'snowflake' seems to have almost vanished from right wing discourse after the left started throwing it back in the faces of Kevin and his ilk who play the perpetual victim.
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Apparently one of the Proud Boys who was prominent in the 6th January events has now said Trump lied to him in assuring them that the election was rigged.

I wonder how many others will belatedly accept this?
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refitman
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by refitman »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Apparently one of the Proud Boys who was prominent in the 6th January events has now said Trump lied to him in assuring them that the election was rigged.

I wonder how many others will belatedly accept this?
Did you hear the news from Canada? They've designated the PB a terrorist organisation.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

tinyclanger2 wrote:I'll just make sure it's not an afternoon.
Ok, but as you can see it goes downhill rapidly after checking out chicks on daytime TV.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

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AnatolyKasparov wrote:Apparently one of the Proud Boys who was prominent in the 6th January events has now said Trump lied to him in assuring them that the election was rigged.

I wonder how many others will belatedly accept this?
Thanks AK, I hadn't heard that until you mentioned it.

Proud Boys Member Says Trump to Blame for Inciting Capitol Riot

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... pitol-riot
A member of the far-right Proud Boys charged for his role in the riot at the U.S. Capitol blamed former President Donald Trump for his conduct, claiming he was “misled by the president’s deception.”

according to the filing by lawyer Jonathan Zucker. “Defendant did not act out of criminal intent but out of conscience, albeit a frighteningly confused and distorted sense of conscience.”
So yeah you've got to wonder how many prosecutions and defamation lawsuits are going to have to be filed before the bubble bursts and they realise they've been had.

I mean even Trump's own impeachment lawyers said yesterday that Biden won the election fair and square.
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

Time for this again, I feel.

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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

It's astonishing really, after 4 years of Trump and a pitiful attempt at an insurrection by right wing morons American politics is now a place to escape from the grinding awfulness of our politics at home. A place where justice appears to be being done, comeuppance is being had and lessons are been learned. At least by some. Whereas here we have various parliamentary committees and watchdogs criticising a government for what is obviously outright corruption in euphemistic terms because they're scared and it would only make a splash in the Guardian and Independent.

Upon witnessing the antic's at the Capitol on January the 6'th Kenya's Daily Nation Newspaper asked quite rightly 'Who is the banana republic now?'

At the time it was both the US and the UK.

Now it's just us.
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

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PorFavor
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:It's astonishing really, after 4 years of Trump and a pitiful attempt at an insurrection by right wing morons American politics is now a place to escape from the grinding awfulness of our politics at home. A place where justice appears to be being done, comeuppance is being had and lessons are been learned. At least by some. Whereas here we have various parliamentary committees and watchdogs criticising a government for what is obviously outright corruption in euphemistic terms because they're scared and it would only make a splash in the Guardian and Independent.

Upon witnessing the antic's at the Capitol on January the 6'th Kenya's Daily Nation Newspaper asked quite rightly 'Who is the banana republic now?'

At the time it was both the US and the UK.

Now it's just us.
They call it a "Chumocracy" which sounds much more cuddly and something that can be indulged and tolerated than calling it what it is - corruption. "Chumocracy" sounds very public school and gentleman's club. Lesser mortals need neither apply nor trouble their tiny minds.
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Sky'sGoneOut
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

PorFavor wrote:They call it a "Chumocracy" which sounds much more cuddly and something that can be indulged and tolerated than calling it what it is - corruption. "Chumocracy" sounds very public school and gentleman's club. Lesser mortals need neither apply nor trouble their tiny minds.
Quite how a fast track approach where bids were favoured if they came from a Tory MP or Lord can be seen as anything other than outright corruption escapes me.

But there's absolutely fuck all we can do.

Besides keep on keeping on.
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

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PorFavor
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

I can hear horse hoofsteps.
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

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PorFavor
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

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tinyclanger2
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Re: Wednesday 10th February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

PorFavor wrote:Time for this again, I feel.

It's always time for that!
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