Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

A home from home
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Locked
User avatar
refitman
Site Admin
Posts: 4461
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 6:22 pm
Location: Wombwell, United Kingdom

Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by refitman »

Morning all.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 12320
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Good morefternoon, all.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 10120
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Good evening.

For 'Conservative Woman' read 'Crank'
Kathy Gyngell
@KathyConWom
What could the effect of mass multiple vaccinations be on future generations’ immune systems? Might immune systems be less stimulated to develop without the naturally evolved drive that has made us what we are today? We should ask these questions.
Here's the article she's tweeting out...written by a retied dentist.

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/why ... so-rushed/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

:toss:
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 12320
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Where on earth has everyone been today?

Anyway, rumours online of a "major announcement" tonight that is royal family related.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 14392
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Where on earth has everyone been today?

Anyway, rumours online of a "major announcement" tonight that is royal family related.
Et tu, Brute?
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 12320
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

No announcement at 10PM as Farage (amongst others) promised us......hmmm.

Though it does appear the Wikipedia entry of our Royal Consort has been edited :shock:
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Where on earth has everyone been today?
Home, the woods, Tesco, back home.


Boris Johnson's government is 'gaslighting' Britain about the realities of Brexit, critics say

https://edition.cnn.com/2021/02/20/euro ... index.html
Andy Trust has been exporting fish from Cornwall to continental Europe for 20 years. However, the past seven weeks have given him cause to contemplate shutting down the entire European operation of his fish merchants, Ocean Harvest. "The cost of sending fish into Europe has more than trebled. In an industry that operates on thin profit margins, it could destroy British fishing," he says.

Under these circumstances, you'd expect a government to be doing everything in its power to help struggling businesses. However, critics fear that the Johnson administration has buried its head in the sand: The Prime Minister has called the difficulties no more than "teething problems."

"There might be closer cooperation, but I doubt it at the moment. What's more concerning is the government's gaslighting. They don't admit that there's a problem; they play it down; they say to wait 10 years. Which one is it? Is it all fine or do we need to wait 10 years? And what are the people currently suffering supposed to do in that time?" says Anand Menon, professor of European politics at King's College London.

Liz Truss, the international trade secretary, has refused to answer questions from lawmakers on their concerns about the deal, while the government says it has no plans to publish an impact assessment.
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 14392
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

Anand Menon is usually good value. He makes well-reasoned arguments backed up by facts, and gives clear explanations.
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

RogerOThornhill wrote:For 'Conservative Woman' read 'Crank'.
Or 'scientifically illiterate moron who has retweeted James Delingpole gibbering about DNA altering vaccines'.

As for Kathy's questions.

'What could the effect of mass multiple vaccinations be on future generations’ immune systems?'

It would make them more resistant to deadly viral diseases.

'Might immune systems be less stimulated to develop without the naturally evolved drive that has made us what we are today?'

What? Honestly what the fuck is this even asking? Is it 'does being vaccinated make our immune system weaker'? Because the answer is categorically no, it does not. For example, if we were to take someone who has not been immunised against smallpox, polio and measles and expose them to those viruses (this is only a thought experiment I'm not Mengele), then do the same with someone who has been immunised, whose immune system would be in better shape afterwards in the unlikely event the former survives?

It's long been known being exposed to infection weakens the immune system until the infected person recovers and it returns to a baseline state. Catching multiple diseases, rather like exposing yourself to radiation, does not turn someone into a fucking superhuman.

Oh and I see she's also a climate change denier. Quelle fucking surpise.
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

PorFavor wrote:Anand Menon is usually good value. He makes well-reasoned arguments backed up by facts, and gives clear explanations.
He's also fastidiously non-partisan, which can be frustrating at times but it does make his criticisms more pointed.
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 14392
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

His non-partisanship did, when I first came across it, ruffle me for the first minute or so but its value quickly became more reassuring than otherwise. He's good.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 12320
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

No "big announcement" at 8AM this morning, either.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 4760
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 9:51 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by gilsey »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:Where on earth has everyone been today?
Getting vaccinated. 8-)
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
User avatar
Willow904
Prime Minister
Posts: 6938
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 1:40 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Willow904 »

gilsey wrote:
AnatolyKasparov wrote:Where on earth has everyone been today?
Getting vaccinated. 8-)
:dance:

Hope you haven't experienced any of the worst side-effects.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 8699
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Never a fast developer, I am just reallsing the dangerous consequences of the Trumps, Johnsons, woman mentioned above, who believe themselves to have been selected by "God" to rule a bunch of losers who were not selected by said deity. I had foolishly believed (without examining it properly) that under close examination most people understood at some point in their lives that this was not the case. But rather it has spread among the population to embolden those who believe their own anger is the only "reality" that exists.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 8699
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

The above is a bit jumbled. But am sure you can work it out.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 10120
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Another of the "yes I know I voted for it but I'm trying to pretend I didn't" clown.

https://twitter.com/benhabib6/status/13 ... 1117950976" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I guess the irony of Brexit MEPs railing against "the EU non-elected bureaucrats" while not actually understanding what their own job as an elected politician was escapes him.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 10120
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Ah yes, that meeting with Oliver Dowden...sounds like a bit of a damp squib. But this is amusing...

https://twitter.com/profdanhicks/status ... 8529593345" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Dan Hicks
@profdanhicks
what’s in the latest of the Sunday Telegraph’s weekly updates on the government’s increasingly incoherent fake culture war?

Nothing of substance—apart from a telling moment when @HarryYorke1 refers to an imagined British institution named “the National History Museum”
:D
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 12320
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

To be fair, that sort of error is only natural :)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 8699
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

:clap:
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Labour MPs dismayed at orders to maintain ‘radio silence’ on Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -on-brexit
One senior backbencher said the message from the top was very clear – that there should be virtual “radio silence” on the issue. “The order that is coming out is: ‘Don’t mention the war.’ We are being told that Keir wants to move on and that if we mention the B-word let alone suggest we a need better deal with the EU than Boris Johnson’s we are being unhelpful.”
Just leaving this here for now so I can have a rant about it later on.
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

RogerOThornhill wrote:Another of the "yes I know I voted for it but I'm trying to pretend I didn't" clown.

https://twitter.com/benhabib6/status/13 ... 1117950976" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You know, and I hate to say this, it's almost as if he didn't understand what he was voting for.
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 10120
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Good grief...

https://twitter.com/PoliticsForAlI/stat ... 4285263874" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Politics For All
@PoliticsForAlI
Boris Johnson’s plan to build three tunnels under the Irish Sea connecting in an “underground roundabout” beneath the Isle of Man has been described as “batsh*t” by Johnson’s senior aides

Via
@thesundaytimes
:roll:
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 12320
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

Sky'sGoneOut wrote:Labour MPs dismayed at orders to maintain ‘radio silence’ on Brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -on-brexit
One senior backbencher said the message from the top was very clear – that there should be virtual “radio silence” on the issue. “The order that is coming out is: ‘Don’t mention the war.’ We are being told that Keir wants to move on and that if we mention the B-word let alone suggest we a need better deal with the EU than Boris Johnson’s we are being unhelpful.”
Just leaving this here for now so I can have a rant about it later on.
My own view (which I realise won't be universally popular on here) is that Starmer's line on this is basically the correct one.

Any election primarily about Brexit is one that Labour and the left cannot win, that has surely been conclusively demonstrated by now.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
RogerOThornhill
Prime Minister
Posts: 10120
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:18 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by RogerOThornhill »

Re the IoM story...oops!

https://twitter.com/AileenMcHarg/status ... 2219196421" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:My own view (which I realise won't be universally popular on here) is that Starmer's line on this is basically the correct one.
Ooooh *shakes fist*, just you wait until it's wine o'clock.
PorFavor
Prime Minister
Posts: 14392
Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 11:18 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by PorFavor »

@AnatolyKasparov

"Brexit" is already causing problems which a lot of people were both told and believed wouldn't arise, so to ignore it would, I think, be ludicrous if not impossible. Keir Starmer may consider that appearing to be "anti-Brexit" won't gain votes and, at this stage in the proceedings, it's possible that he's correct. But he needs to set out policies that will, in practise, need to be pro-EU if he wants to mitigate the effects of "Brexit". Sort of "anti-Brexit" by stealth; but "Brexit" will have to be mentioned one way or another. If he thinks it won't, he's delusional.
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 12320
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

I don't think the negative consequences of Brexit should be ignored, and tbf I doubt if Starmer wants to do that either.

Its about the *framing* - the people whining in the Observer want KS to bang on and on about "Brexit is bad".

As long as that is how it framed, the vast majority of the 52% who voted for it will continue to see the Tories as their best bet.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 8699
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

Was interested to read about the high rise garden from camden to kings cross
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
User avatar
tinyclanger2
Prime Minister
Posts: 8699
Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 8:18 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by tinyclanger2 »

(forthcoming)
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:My own view (which I realise won't be universally popular on here) is that Starmer's line on this is basically the correct one.

Any election primarily about Brexit is one that Labour and the left cannot win, that has surely been conclusively demonstrated by now.
Ok, football out of the way and half a bottle of Chilean Riesling down my gullet so let's do this Mr Kasparov. ;)

I don't think anyone is suggesting fighting any election primarily on the subject of Brexit. I agree that at the moment that would be suicidal. But it's almost surreal, when businesses are closing, going bust or fleeing the country, to have the opposition party pretending it's not happening every bit as much as the government responsible for it. I've never seen anything like it in my life. An opposition refusing to take advantage of a government's discomfiture. It's like Boris Johnson has stood at the despatch box, let rip an enormous stinking fart, and Keir Starmer and the entire Labour party behind him are sitting there stony faced, desperately trying to ignore it, while everyone watching pisses themselves laughing. It's absurd and embarrassing.

But of course they're in this mess because of the equally absurd decision to vote for Johnson's deal. Any criticism would put Starmer in the same hypocritical position as the Brexit Party morons complaining about the Northern Ireland protocol Roger has highlighted. Had they abstained while pointing out the obvious well documented flaws that are currently wrecking businesses Labour would be in a situation right now where they could take advantage. But they aren't, they're having to make themselves look utterly ridiculous pretending a massive fart everyone heard never happened.

It's cowardly, it's farcical, and it's the kind of thing the Republicans are doing in the U.S, denying reality in the hope of electoral gain.
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Why do I always end up relying on flatulence analogies when making a political point?

I'm becoming a bit of a one fart pony.
gilsey
Prime Minister
Posts: 4760
Joined: Thu 28 Aug, 2014 9:51 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by gilsey »

There are 2 things I agree with Starmer on, not talking about Brexit and not talking about tax rises.

In both cases, the mess the govt is in is only just beginning. On Brexit there are 2 more sets of border controls to come, April and July, I think a bit longer for the message to get through to the general public is fine. I don't think 'you voted for it' is going to get the govt off the hook. Of course for all I know SKS might be planning to go right through to 2024 without mentioning it but I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt for now.

As for taxes, usually the tories are champing at the bit to cut them but here we are in the reverse situation, a rare event indeed. In the short term raising taxes will hardly make a dent in the debt so, oppose.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
AnatolyKasparov
Prime Minister
Posts: 12320
Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 8:26 pm

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by AnatolyKasparov »

The real point I suppose is that anything that just looks like it is "re-litigating" the referendum is still pretty toxic and will remain so for some time yet.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Me - "Good evening Mr Starmer. I'd like to begin the interview by asking you why you think a Yorkshire lobster exporter has decided to close his 60 year old family business."

Keir Starmer - "Good evening Sky. Well look, obviously the government bears some responsibility for the closing of this business and we're calling for extra funding to keep businesses like this viable in the future."

Me - "I see, could you be more specific in regard to what responsibility you think the government bears?"

Keir Starmer - "Businesses like this are facing unprecedented pressure due to a lack of government support and we think extra funding should be made available to them."

Me - "And what would you say is causing this pressure?"

Keir Starmer - "A lack of government support."

Me - "With respect Starmer why would a 60 year old business need government support after being solvent for over half a century until the end of January this year?"

Keir Starmer - "Volcanoes."

Me - "Excuse me?"

Keir Starmer - "The volcanoes in Yorkshire upset the lobsters."

Me - "Errmm..."

Keir Starmer - "Lobsters notoriously hate volcanoes because the natural enemy of the lobster is the Phoenix which lay their eggs in active volcanic calderas."

Me - "I didn't know that and what about the Scottish fishermen?"

Keir Starmer - "Kelpies, they're kind of half woman half horse spirit creatures that live in the sea despite the fact both would drown."

Me - "And they're responsible for delaying fresh catches reaching European markets how?"

Keir Starmer - "By seducing customs officials and messing about with the paperwork."

Me - "Despite being ethereal and part horse?"

Keir Starmer - "Don't knock it until you've tried it."

Me - "I see, thank you Mr Starmer for your time."

Keir Starmer - "You're welcome, and if you need a number for a kelpie you need only ask."
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

AnatolyKasparov wrote:The real point I suppose is that anything that just looks like it is "re-litigating" the referendum is still pretty toxic and will remain so for some time yet.
There is a difference between strategically withdrawing from a battle and kneeling before the victor and kissing their boots.

I won't be voting Labour in May because of their ridiculous behaviour but I'm a left wing flibbertigibbet. We'll see how many do the same.

But it's good to have an alternative point of view so this place isn't a total echo chamber and there's someone keeping an eye on things while the rest of us are out partying and living it up.

Thanks Anatoly.
User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

That sounded like I was taking the piss.

I really wasn't.

User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

User avatar
Sky'sGoneOut
Prime Minister
Posts: 4902
Joined: Sat 30 Aug, 2014 12:11 am

Re: Saturday 20th & Sunday 21st February 2021

Post by Sky'sGoneOut »

Locked