Friday 29th July 2016

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:09 pm

The defenders of Jess Phillips not infrequently assert that she is from a "working class" background.

In actual fact, her father was a teacher and her mother a senior NHS manager.

Just putting that out there

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:14 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:What the hell is going on?
An unfounded rumour has just been posted on Twitter?

Should be rumours? Three separate incidents although the Bracknell one is definitely true.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:17 pm

Freedomofthepress wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:Bracknell CLP.

Nomination meeting
Some members have been asking for a nomination meeting and, following lengthy consideration by the officers of the EC, we have confirmed our decision not to hold one. Some of the considerations we took into account were:
1. With over 500 members and registered supporters able to vote, and with passions as high as they are, the management of such a meeting would be a major logistical challenge. Stewards would be required to physically check the membership status of all those seeking admission. Public safety could well be an issue.
2. A neutral facilitator would need to be found so that the meeting could be chaired fairly and impartially.
3. Nationally, on a number of occasions, the mood has been both ugly and antagonistic. The recent statement from our general secretary, Ian McNicol, about acceptable conduct makes this point very clearly.
4. We have two declared candidates and a supporting nomination from Bracknell CLP is unnecessary. It will be for individual members and registered supporters to cast their votes when the time comes.
5. Supporting nomination meetings have to be concluded by 15th August and we need to provide 7 days written notice of holding such a meeting to our regional director. We are now in the peak holiday period and many members will be unable to attend.
I know this will disappoint many of you but this decision was not taken lightly. Thank you for your understanding.
In response:

1. This is utter rubbish. The meeting I attended last night had an audience of perhaps over 200 and the general feeling amonst the audience was one of excitement. Excitement to be taking part in something democratic and historic. Many people commented on the way out about how polite everybody had been and how respectful everybody had been towards the other side (this was not quite true as several OS supporters sniggered loudly (on a few occasions) when JC supporters were giving their speeches).
2. Again, this is rubbish. The meeting needs to be run professionally with 5 speakers picked out of a hat for OS and 5 speakers picked out of a hat for JC. All members were asked if they would like to speak on the way in.
I attended this CLP even though I am now with another constituency and even though the Volunteer could see on the database that I was registered at another address, they allowed me in as my membership letter and card was registered within their CLP and I have been a new member since May 2015. The Volunteer was a nice guy and he used his common sense.
3. Has the mood nationally being ugly and antagonistic and if so why? I do not believe the negative reports I are being fed by the media but as was evidenced last night, many people do as I can verify by what I was hearing on the way out.
5. From what I gather the majority of CLP Leadership nomination meetings were held last night. How did all the other CLP's manage to arrange a meeting but yet Bracknell could not?

Just some thoughts.

This will be what many members are feeling and will be asking. Doesn't say much for supposed democracy does it.

RogerOThornhill · Post by **RogerOThornhill** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:18 pm

ephemerid wrote:
One for Roger - Katharine Birbalsingh shows us yet again what a super head she is.....
children whose parents get behind with lunch money have "lunch isolation" imposed on them, made to sit alone for the lunch hour, and given a sandwich instead of a hot meal. This, apparently, is designed to make parents change their ways and pay up front. Lunch at the Michaela Free School costs £2.50 per day, and parents are supposed to pay in advance every term.

Yes, I saw this earlier. Disapprove of kids being punished for something which their parents have / haven't done.

This is the latter sent to parents.

That's really poor - even with the tone, two different spellings of overdue, "Your Faithfully" and a comedy signature. Pretty sure it should be from the "Deputy Head Teacher" not just "Deputy Head".

And a capitalized Sandwich.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:18 pm

I gather it is misogyny to threaten a lady with rape. I also gather it is to ask how.

I'll get my coat.... literally, it looks like rain.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:22 pm

Forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't Barry Smith shout a lot about household cleaning materials?

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:24 pm

Whatever happened to the #ToryElectionFraud investigation? (Guardian)

A "Where Are We Now - and What Might Be Next?" article. The general tone is that there's nothing to get excited (or optimistic) about, I'm afraid.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... estigation

Edited to try for a working link

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:24 pm

Are Ms. Philips' words more appreciated when they cannot be heard?

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:31 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
ephemerid wrote: One for Roger - Katharine Birbalsingh shows us yet again what a super head she is.....
children whose parents get behind with lunch money have "lunch isolation" imposed on them, made to sit alone for the lunch hour, and given a sandwich instead of a hot meal. This, apparently, is designed to make parents change their ways and pay up front. Lunch at the Michaela Free School costs £2.50 per day, and parents are supposed to pay in advance every term.
Yes, I saw this earlier. Disapprove of kids being punished for something which their parents have / haven't done.

(cJA edit)

Who in the world thought up and instigated this course of action?

pk1 · Post by **pk1** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:32 pm

Shawcroft suspension was in 2015 for her continued support of Lutfer Rahman.

The image sent to Jess Philips was of a woman's body implaed on a spike & on which the sender had superimposed Jess's face. Surely nobody could endorse this revolting behaviour, regardless of what you might think of her ?

Several CLP's are choosing not to hold nomination meetings - they mean nothing whatsoever in any case. No idea why people get so het up about it.

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:34 pm

utopiandreams wrote:Forgive me if I'm wrong but doesn't Barry Smith shout a lot about household cleaning materials?

IT'S BARRY SCOTT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sadly, the new Cillit Bang ads no longer feature the fabulous Barry Scott (a.k.a. actor Neil Burgess). He has been replaced by a model.

This is absolute pants. I love Barry. BANG! And the dirt is gone.....

He has many fans, including Moi, and a techno remix of his slogans was very popular amongst the cognoscenti, I'd have you know.

HindleA · Post by **HindleA** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:34 pm

I think it depends on your perspective,getting endless repeated "suggestions" in forthright manner to leave the party and an ensemble of your local SWP choral Society to welcome your arrival at meetings perhaps might not be conducive to genuine fraternal discussion.I think "go away" is a rather strange version of democracy but what do I know,I do naked vacuum cleaning as a hobby.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:37 pm

I think Philips attracts a lot more hostility than other MPs who oppose Corbyn who happen to be men. See this board.

No woman has ever placed above a man in any Labour leadership election.

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/fe ... exism-left" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

A Labour woman MP from her part of the party was also recently shot dead. I can understand her and others being very sensitive to abuse and threats.

Whoever is to blame, and we are not going to agree about that, I think we have to accept that tolerance and civility have seriously deteriorated over the last year or so.

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:39 pm

Greetings all,

I have been reading the last few days but haven't commented because I didn't feel I had anything useful to add. However I have been interested in [among other things] the discussions about 'flouncing'. I began to feel rather left out - I want to have a 'flounce'. But as an intermittent poster, it wouldn't be noticed. So I came up with a cunning plan. I would post regularly for a few weeks/months, and then have my grand 'flounce' moment. Yet now I read the world is ending today. It's so unfair!

I am distraught. And confused. I have a form I have to fill in and return by the end of July. I really don't want to bother with it and if the world is ending, why go to the effort anyway? If the world doesn't end, and I send the form in late, do you suppose they will accept it?

Not to mention my daughter 'phoned me today to say she had bought her veil [despite it being over a year until the wedding]. If the world ends today, that's simply a waste of money. And if it doesn't end today, it's just wrong. She shouldn't be buying any part of her outfit until such time as I've chosen my hat. Otherwise she might not match with MY outfit.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:42 pm

Tizme1 wrote:Greetings all,

I have been reading the last few days but haven't commented because I didn't feel I had anything useful to add.

You're making me feel guilty . . .

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:45 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:
ephemerid wrote:
One for Roger - Katharine Birbalsingh shows us yet again what a super head she is.....
children whose parents get behind with lunch money have "lunch isolation" imposed on them, made to sit alone for the lunch hour, and given a sandwich instead of a hot meal. This, apparently, is designed to make parents change their ways and pay up front. Lunch at the Michaela Free School costs £2.50 per day, and parents are supposed to pay in advance every term.

Yes, I saw this earlier. Disapprove of kids being punished for something which their parents have / haven't done.

This is the latter sent to parents.

That's really poor - even with the tone, two different spellings of overdue, "Your Faithfully" and a comedy signature. Pretty sure it should be from the "Deputy Head Teacher" not just "Deputy Head".

And a capitalized Sandwich.

I'd only have one word for the woman who was responsible for this letter. Cow!

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:46 pm

I do not approve or condone of much that is posted on social media but find it hard to take offence. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I were in the public eye. I was going to add 'and met open hostility' something I did in the past, but thankfully not nowadays.

AnatolyKasparov · Post by **AnatolyKasparov** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:50 pm

I can think of a fair few male MP opponents of Corbyn who get very rough abuse, quite frequently (mine is one of them)

Phillips doesn't get the treatment she does "because she is a woman". She gets it because she far too frequently interjects without thinking, and many suspect with more of an eye on how she can get favourable MSM references rather than the best interests of the party she claims to care about.

And that same media having fainting fits about the least bit of slightly intemperate language by "Corbynistas", whilst cheering her on quite uncritically when she crudely abused Diane Abbott, is yet another example of the double standards and indeed outright mendacity that gets so many people even more annoyed

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:51 pm

RogerOThornhill wrote:And a capitalized Sandwich.

Perhaps they're marrying them off to one?

ephemerid · Post by **ephemerid** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:51 pm

pk1 wrote:Shawcroft suspension was in 2015 for her continued support of Lutfer Rahman.

The image sent to Jess Philips was of a woman's body implaed on a spike & on which the sender had superimposed Jess's face. Surely nobody could endorse this revolting behaviour, regardless of what you might think of her ?

Several CLP's are choosing not to hold nomination meetings - they mean nothing whatsoever in any case. No idea why people get so het up about it.

I don't think anyone is endorsing the behaviour of the person who posted that image - I certainly wouldn't. And didn't.

However, Phillips is a self-publicist. She has posted pictures of the house she says she needs to make more secure, and they have appeared in national newspapers; I'm not sure how that's supposed to work in terms of protecting her privacy and security.

That does not excuse whoever it is who is sending vile messages; but it could be anyone, not necessarily "Feral Pro-Corbyn trolls". In fact, some people accused Momentum of sending anti-semitic abuse to Luciana Berger - it turned out to be a far-right troll known to the police for similar behaviour elsewhere.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:52 pm

@ephe.

At least I got the BS bit right.

PorFavor · Post by **PorFavor** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:52 pm

The EU has warned Turkey that their EU accession could be affected if they carry on the way they appear to be going. (That's a terribly over-simplified paraphrase because I only vaguely heard a snippet on the BBC News, and I can't yet find anything about it on their website.)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:59 pm

"The Labour Party would not be what it is - maddening, perhaps, but also capable of arousing strong positive emotions - if people not only with widely differing views but also with widely differing analyses of episodes in the Party's history did not come together as fellow members."

Gerald Kaufman, 1967.

Labour’s Crisis and the End of the Two-Party System
http://www.labourpains.group.shef.ac.uk ... ty-system/

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 12:59 pm

HindleA wrote:Yes,Morning.
Sometimes I forget,people don't keep the same hours as me,maybe I should stop being a bat for a while.

I'd say so. You're running a terrible risk of sharing a cave with IDS.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:00 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I can think of a fair few male MP opponents of Corbyn who get very rough abuse, quite frequently (mine is one of them)

Of course they get abuse, and whether it is different in degree is a matter of judgement about which we seem to differ (so, for what it is worth, I think Abbott gets more abuse than McDonnell, though the latter is far more deserving of it),

But I don't think men attract the photoshopped mock-ups that Phillips and, say, Creasy get. The hostility to Smith seems, to me at least, different in kind to that Eagle attracted.

I think there are people who should know better who are trying to assert some kind of moral equivalence to behaviour that is different in kind,

Here is Burgon, for example, doing that

http://labourlist.org/2016/07/richard-b ... y-members/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As with anti-semitism, I think those saying there is no problem or that there is equivalent blame to go around are mistaken.

citizenJA · Post by **citizenJA** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:02 pm

ohsocynical wrote:"The Labour Party would not be what it is - maddening, perhaps, but also capable of arousing strong positive emotions - if people not only with widely differing views but also with widely differing analyses of episodes in the Party's history did not come together as fellow members."

Gerald Kaufman, 1967.

Labour’s Crisis and the End of the Two-Party System
http://www.labourpains.group.shef.ac.uk ... ty-system/

1967 was an interesting year

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:22 pm

STAN NEWENS believes in learning from history – and recalls how 35 years ago Labour MPs rebelled against the party’s then leader Michael Foot and how subsequent events cemented Thatcher in power with terrible consequences

http://linkis.com/co.uk/cyfOi

Some interesting articles appearing today.

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:24 pm

Council leader says cash paid for London free school site is ‘staggering waste’
In our diary: £33.5m paid for office block to house Islington school; DfE shells out high rent for academy; Mats’ budget league table

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... -islington" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sputnikkers · Post by **sputnikkers** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:26 pm

It's an ill wind ... As Jo Maugham said on his Twitter account on linking to the story below:

Did someone say regulatory capture?

Get ready for the great Brexit lobbying boom | Comment | The Times & The Sunday Times

At times of great change come times of great opportunity ... but to whose benefit here? Perhaps once upon a time I would have seen and monitored this as new business opportunities for my and my family's own personal gain. Too tired now! However, just for fun and to torture myself, I think I might reawaken an old interest in watching how patents, IP etc., progress, eg Future of the UK's participation in the European Unitary Patent system (surely worth keeping as poorly managed as it is) - up for grabs wrapped in a more valuable, 'competitive' Patent Box?

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:27 pm

Hypothetical scenario based on reading the afore linked labour pains article:

Should Labour split because Corbyn wins in September, what happens next for British democracy? Do the Tories just ignore that they've become a de facto dictatorship and carry on as though nothing has happened, or will there be a push for significant reform of British politics that reflects the new 7/8 party system (Labour, New New Labour, Tory, SNP, UKIP, Lib Dem, Green, Plaid) that will occur as a result? Could the Tories seriously get away with doing nothing or is there likely to be a popular revolt against them?

(I doubt the latter. Largely due to the nature of our 'free' press that would be overwhelmingly delighted at having a Tory party that is under their heel at their beck and call in perpetuity.)

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:30 pm

Freedomofthepress wrote:
pk1 wrote:Several CLP's are choosing not to hold nomination meetings -.......... No idea why people get so het up about it.
Several CLP's choose last year not to hold nomination meetings and some CLP's choose not to nominate any Leadership contender and I do not recall any complaints or criticism.

The reason, that people are getting so het up about it, this year may have to do with the reasons given by the various CLP's for this course of action notably "ugly and antagonistic scenes at meetings", which many members dispute and which there appears to be very little evidence to back up. Also, the fact that the NEC took it upon themselves to ban all CLP meetings until after the Leadership contest. That is why people are upset and angry a the ban on a democratic process.

One member posted: >>>I've never been sure whether the "executive-heavy" structure of Bracknell CLP is really within the rules of the party. In every other constituency where I've ever been a member, decisions like this have been taken by a rowdy constituency "General Management Committee" or GC with delegates sent from every branch every month. There seems to be a slight 'democratic deficit in Bracknell!"<<<

My contribution was: How did other CLP's manage to arrange well behaved meetings before the holidays kicked in?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:35 pm

Mandelson blames New Labour for Brexit and calls on LP members to support redistribution of wealth.

http://www.organizedrage.com/2016/07/ma ... t.html?m=1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Tizme1 · Post by **Tizme1** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:36 pm

PorFavor wrote:
Tizme1 wrote:Greetings all,

I have been reading the last few days but haven't commented because I didn't feel I had anything useful to add.
You're making me feel guilty . . .

*sigh* Now I feel guilty for making you feel guilty. Which leaves me distraught, confused, and guilty. And I haven't even had lunch yet.

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:40 pm

Personally I think men get as much abuse as women, moreso face to face. Nevertheless I agree that it needs to be tackled on social media and although it goes against the grain it may require real names. Personally I favour greater freedom to speak with part hidden identities, but if that's what it takes then so be it.

sputnikkers · Post by **sputnikkers** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 1:42 pm

I see that the Crowdfunder #BrexitJustice, a Politics in United Kingdom on Crowdfunder is at £143,930 just short of its second stretch target (ends today - originally £100,000 then £125,000) even though the latest Ashcroft poll show no real appetite for a second Ref from Labour voters.

It will be interesting to see who will be on the legal team, who from the Vote Leave team they might be able to put in the dock and what effect it might have, if any, on timing of Article 50?

AngryAsWell · Post by **AngryAsWell** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 2:02 pm

Immigration raid on Byron Hamburgers rounds up 35 workers
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... 30-workers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

sputnikkers · Post by **sputnikkers** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 2:21 pm

Re my #BrexitJustice post, above:

Does anyone know offhand if and how many MPs or MEPs have been prosecuted and convicted for 'fraud (- I imagine quite a few but asking mainly for the following:), "misconduct in public office", "undue influence", "inciting racial hatred"'?

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 2:29 pm

Some interesting posts now appearing over our CLPs decision not to hold a nomination meeting.

I am new to the Party and this is my first post. I joined the Party because I thought it would be inclusive and democratic. I over my life have chaired my then local Trade Union Branch, Slough Trade Union Council and other organisations. My family is steeped in Labour Party activism since 1945. My late father the first ever Labour Chairman of the late Berkshire County Council. The purpose of an Executive and a Chairman is to facilitate the workings of an organisation to ensure the membership can play their part and exercise their rights within the organisation they've chosen to join. My reading of this CLP statement to paraphrase it would be this : ' We have become such a large local Party with hundreds of new Members and suupporters that it is now impossible for us to run and organize a democratic meeting '

gilsey · Post by **gilsey** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 2:30 pm

AnatolyKasparov wrote:I can think of a fair few male MP opponents of Corbyn who get very rough abuse, quite frequently (mine is one of them)

Phillips doesn't get the treatment she does "because she is a woman". She gets it because she far too frequently interjects without thinking, and many suspect with more of an eye on how she can get favourable MSM references rather than the best interests of the party she claims to care about.

And that same media having fainting fits about the least bit of slightly intemperate language by "Corbynistas", whilst cheering her on quite uncritically when she crudely abused Diane Abbott, is yet another example of the double standards and indeed outright mendacity that gets so many people even more annoyed

I expect Diane Abbott has been getting that sort of abuse ever since she's been an MP, poison pen letters before social media came along. Goes with the territory.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 2:44 pm

utopiandreams wrote:Personally I think men get as much abuse as women, moreso face to face. Nevertheless I agree that it needs to be tackled on social media and although it goes against the grain it may require real names. Personally I favour greater freedom to speak with part hidden identities, but if that's what it takes then so be it.

Requiring the use of "real names" is, I think, unworkable in practice and undesirable in principle.

To address the latter first, I think this puts it well -
http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Who_ ... _policy%3F" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And in practice it's unworkable. Its trivially easy for someone to invent a real-sounding name and then ensure their location appears to be somewhere, such as a different country, they are not. For "real names only" to be enforced requires a global system of name-checking that can handle people in small African villages as well as big US/European cities. Facebook's recent policy of requiring "real names" has been used as a way to bully and silence people by the simple trick of complaining to Facebook that they aren't using their "real name", Facebook then responding by suspending indefinitely or shutting down the account complained about.

And given that any information placed on-line always risks being obtained by people with malicious intent, any system that stores the necessary information to verify an identity instantly becomes a target for data theft followed by identity theft and fraud. The risk isn't limited to hacking attempts, some of the bigger thefts of personal data have been commited by employees/agency workers who have been employed by companies holding personal information. The fraudsters who do the "Hi, I'm from Microsoft and your computer has viruses, please give me full access to it so I can sort it out" telephone routine started when a director-level employee at a "gold star" Indian company that had a Microsoft contract for telephone support simply nicked the MS customer data lists and went into business on his own account.

The thing about computer/internet security is it boils down to trust. Can a system be trusted to be secure, and if so, how secure? I can keep my own home LAN secure but I can't keep remote systems over which I have no control secure. Some pretty much have to be trusted, e.g. my bank and to a lesser extent Paypal, but I have a few email addresses that were set up to deal with specific companies that eventually started receiving spam following data theft, including the likes of major on-line services such as Adobe.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 2:55 pm

sputnikkers wrote:Re my #BrexitJustice post, above:

Does anyone know offhand if and how many MPs or MEPs have been prosecuted and convicted for 'fraud (- I imagine quite a few but asking mainly for the following:), "misconduct in public office", "undue influence", "inciting racial hatred"'?

For the latter three offences I don't think there have been any.

Fraud prosecutions over expenses include the half dozen or so MP/Lords expenses scandal prosecutions and UKIP MEPs Ashley Mote and Tom Wise. Mote for £60,000 worth of benefit fraud on top of fraudulently claimed EU expenses.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 2:58 pm

I've just read one Lab MP saying that new members joined up merely to support Corbyn, and they won't necessarily vote Labour.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 3:04 pm

Just occured to me it might be worth adding that misconduct in a public office is a catch-all provision that's very rarely used as a charge because the said misconduct, if of a criminal nature, generally results in the commision of a specific offence, and charges are laid for the specific offence in preference to the catch-all.

An examply would be a BA staff member commiting internal fraud against the BA. While they would undoubtably have been misconducting themselves in a public office they are far more likely to be charged with fraud and/or attempted theft. If they were persisitently using the BA database to look up details of famous people without good cause then they are very likely to be dismissed for breach of the Civil Service Code and, if prosecuted, misconduct might be the charge because there's nothing else that really covers it. Unless they went public with the data in some way at which point s2 of the Official Secrets Act kicks in.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 3:05 pm

ohsocynical wrote:I've just read one Lab MP saying that new members joined up merely to support Corbyn, and they won't necessarily vote Labour.

If Labour is led by someone other than Corbyn by 2020, I think he is right. Labour has attracted a number of supporters who would not have voted for it under Miliband.

TR'sGhost · Post by **TR'sGhost** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 3:07 pm

ohsocynical wrote:I've just read one Lab MP saying that new members joined up merely to support Corbyn, and they won't necessarily vote Labour.

Some were touting that line during the 2015 leadership election. As were the Tory/kipper trolls - sorry, I should say lifelong Labour voters born, bred and still loving in council houses who just wish the Labour Party were more like the Tories and UKIP so they can keep voting for it.

ohsocynical · Post by **ohsocynical** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 3:10 pm

: CohmuKvUIAUvSmC.jpg (198.25 KiB) Viewed 9738 times

utopiandreams · Post by **utopiandreams** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 3:16 pm

Thanks, TR'sGhost, you've more or less stated my usual thoughts on the matter, maybe the greater furore and media coverage of late has got to me. I was even attacked at the G a few days ago for suggesting many complaints are overreaction.

Regarding security, there are no 100% secure systems online, so more fool they that despite advice continue to use the same IDs and passwords on different sites, especially for their bank and the like. Have I ever mentioned a client who left his computer backups in his desk and then had an office fire? This is no urban myth. It doesn't matter how many times you tell some folk says the chap who lost his daughter's Disney photos.

Which reminds me... I have a video somewhere with all the photos on a slideshow with a Trance soundtrack. Better dig it out for digital conversion.

sputnikkers · Post by **sputnikkers** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 3:28 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:...
Requiring the use of "real names" is, I think, unworkable in practice and undesirable in principle.
...

Yes, I'm afraid I agree. While still thinking about old IP battles with MS & Apple from my 'regulatory capture' post above, your post provoked my recollection of a post by the redoubtable pj from Groklaw (ran a long running successful campaign for Open Source against use of patents in software) - she later took the site down because of privacy concerns over the necessary use of email to run the site:
In Defense of Anonymous Speech ~pj
in which she made a compelling (US / First Amendment) case for moderation rather than disallowing anonymity. I choose to post here and some other places elsewhere using this particular identity while I have others for different places. I don't want to link most of these with my offline identity. While I received threats against myself (real identity) a long time ago - pre-WWW - I still prefer not to associate this pseudonymous identity with others. I simply would not post here or there otherwise - no great loss in my case. For example, although I have access to Facebook (via a different identity) I simply do not post there.

I like to think that I use this privilege and help any moderators, at least by not being openly abusive - although I think I got modded a long time ago on the Guardian's tech site a couple of times. I didn't know why at the time (wasn't for abuse) but I suppose that any kind of 'argument' over a disputed state of affairs or history can be taken as personal by journalists who are expressing their opinions freely and openly.

SpinningHugo · Post by **SpinningHugo** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 3:29 pm

TR'sGhost wrote:
ohsocynical wrote:I've just read one Lab MP saying that new members joined up merely to support Corbyn, and they won't necessarily vote Labour.
Some were touting that line during the 2015 leadership election. As were the Tory/kipper trolls - sorry, I should say lifelong Labour voters born, bred and still loving in council houses who just wish the Labour Party were more like the Tories and UKIP so they can keep voting for it.

Someone like Andrew Fisher who supported the Class War candidate against Emily Benn in Croydon South (where he lives) and joked about Balls losing his seat and who is a 'senior policy adviser' to Corbyn will no doubt vote Labour if Corbyn is leader. He won't if he is ousted.

JonnyT1234 · Post by **JonnyT1234** » Fri 29 Jul, 2016 3:32 pm

Not that I want to inspire any of you to start a campaign to get it introduced but, if I did in fact have to do it, using my real name online would prevent me from pretty much commenting on anything due to the nature of my work. Particularly during any periods of purdah.