Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Morning all:)
All hail the weekend!
(Except those who don`t like weekends)
All hail the weekend!
(Except those who don`t like weekends)
Last edited by refitman on Sat 27 Aug, 2016 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed to bank holiday
Reason: Changed to bank holiday
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Re: Saturday 27th August/Sunday 28th August
Lumpen and ungroomed, apppparently
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good headline
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f8d56f04-54a9 ... z4IVpj8Z58" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why businesses our now turning on Labour
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5138ae48-6b90 ... z4IVpj8Z58" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Good headline
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f8d56f04-54a9 ... z4IVpj8Z58" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Why businesses our now turning on Labour
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5138ae48-6b90 ... z4IVpj8Z58" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 27th August/Sunday 28th August
most of us won't be able to read the ft ones and the other is just another right-wing hack's opinion on something with little to add
waste of time
waste of time
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Morning extankie. I've changed your post title to be for the entire bank holiday.extankie wrote:Morning all:)
All hail the weekend!
(Except those who don`t like weekends)
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Article from Wednesday's Guardian which I don't think has been mentioned here yet: While Labour complains, the Tories simply govern https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ies-govern" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's by Rafael Behr, which never bodes well, and does rather state the bleedin' obvious, although misgovern would be more appropriate (and they all seem to be on holiday at the mo anyway).
Behr's thesis is that most people aren't that bothered about politics (no doubt true) although he makes a duff assumption that Osborne was booed at the Paralympics simply because the crowd didn't want to be reminded of his existence when they were out enjoying their non political fun. Most people attending such an event would have at least a passing interest in disability issues, and Osborne was one of the main architects of policies making life even harder for disabled people.
Behr does however make a fairly valid point when he describes the 'febrile' state of mind that characterises Labour at the moment, whereas the electorate just want rational people who know what they're doing (the Tories can maintain the fiction that they know what they're doing - they're actually shambolic).
I think there is a place for passion and angry energy in politics. However, most of that seems to be misdirected at the moment, for example bitterly accusing the likes of Tony Robinson of being a 'Blairite warmonger'. That was the reaction to his tweet that he could afford another Tory government but the poor and vulnerable couldn't, which was why he was voting for Smith. Robinson pointed out that he'd been an opponent to the Iraq invasion from the start.
It's by Rafael Behr, which never bodes well, and does rather state the bleedin' obvious, although misgovern would be more appropriate (and they all seem to be on holiday at the mo anyway).
Behr's thesis is that most people aren't that bothered about politics (no doubt true) although he makes a duff assumption that Osborne was booed at the Paralympics simply because the crowd didn't want to be reminded of his existence when they were out enjoying their non political fun. Most people attending such an event would have at least a passing interest in disability issues, and Osborne was one of the main architects of policies making life even harder for disabled people.
Behr does however make a fairly valid point when he describes the 'febrile' state of mind that characterises Labour at the moment, whereas the electorate just want rational people who know what they're doing (the Tories can maintain the fiction that they know what they're doing - they're actually shambolic).
I think there is a place for passion and angry energy in politics. However, most of that seems to be misdirected at the moment, for example bitterly accusing the likes of Tony Robinson of being a 'Blairite warmonger'. That was the reaction to his tweet that he could afford another Tory government but the poor and vulnerable couldn't, which was why he was voting for Smith. Robinson pointed out that he'd been an opponent to the Iraq invasion from the start.
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Oh, my aching sides!Virgin Trains 'teams up' with Labour to offer discounts (and a seat)
Virgin said: “Labour’s annual conference is one of the high profile political events in Europe. Attracting over 10,000 people, it’s the ideal place to network, share great ideas and an opportunity to mingle with like-minded people.” (Guardian - my emphasis)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... and-a-seat
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Good morfternoon.
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Re: Saturday 27th August/Sunday 28th August
"Our"?? Tut tutSpinningHugo wrote: Why businesses our now turning on Labour
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/5138ae48-6b90 ... z4IVpj8Z58" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
(I won't say anything as I've noticed of late that everyone disappears when I do. however i would still like access to a flicking the v's emoticon if such a thing is possible)
Ta
Ta
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
(oops, I said "Ta")
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... vice-chief" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I haven't read the Times piece, but heard O'Donnell on R4 this morning and he was clear that his expectation was that we would leave, the point being more about how he doesn't think any of our EU related laws will be repealed or changed, that it would be a technical exit, in word only, for some considerable time. There are also some hints in this article about the impact of UK exit on the EU, which lead me to return to my original suspicions that the Tory intent is not to simply leave, but in doing so to attempt to fracture the current EU structure and reform it in some way more acceptable to right wing capitalists. How realistic such a plan may be remains to be seen, but doubts over if and when the UK may invoke article 50 would certainly fit into such a scenario.Brexit is not inevitable and Britain could still remain a part of a changed European Union, the former head of the civil service has said.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
(there you go)
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Don't really know why, but that made me laugh - muchly.Max Whitlock fronts ITV switchoff as part of UK day of sport
Coronation Street fans can head to the soap’s set in Manchester, where the gold medal-winning cyclist Elinor Barker will be taking part in an event on the cobbles. (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/ ... y-olympics
Other than the mirth it caused me, I regard the whole stunt as a pretty pointless exercise. (No pun intended. None taken, I hear you cry.)
Edited
Many typos
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Well, I haven't seen any. Just the odd, lone cabbage white.Large blue butterfly thriving in UK since reintroduction
Numbers of the endangered butterfly, once pronounced extinct in the UK, have reached their highest level in 80 years, according to conservationists
Large blue butterflies (Guardian)
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... troduction
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Ah. Will go with this.
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
There are some in the Tories/on the right more generally who think that desirable, but I think that credits many Brexiters with more sophistication than they actually possess tbh.Willow904 wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... vice-chief
I haven't read the Times piece, but heard O'Donnell on R4 this morning and he was clear that his expectation was that we would leave, the point being more about how he doesn't think any of our EU related laws will be repealed or changed, that it would be a technical exit, in word only, for some considerable time. There are also some hints in this article about the impact of UK exit on the EU, which lead me to return to my original suspicions that the Tory intent is not to simply leave, but in doing so to attempt to fracture the current EU structure and reform it in some way more acceptable to right wing capitalists. How realistic such a plan may be remains to be seen, but doubts over if and when the UK may invoke article 50 would certainly fit into such a scenario.Brexit is not inevitable and Britain could still remain a part of a changed European Union, the former head of the civil service has said.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
tinyclanger2 wrote:Boo!
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Well?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... -elephants" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Tories’ failure to halt ivory trade ‘risks extinction of elephants’
Campaigners attack broken election pledge to shut down domestic market
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/virgin-c ... story.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
NHS privatisation by the back door advancing rapidly under the new Tory majority BANES council as the not for profit Sirona Health and Care favoured by previous council leaders, the Libdems, is elbowed out of the way in favour of fat cat Virgin for this lucrative long term contract.Health bosses have made their choice in a bid for a multimillion contract to run community care services in Bath and north east Somerset.
Virgin Care has been chosen over a consortium led by Sirona care and health in a battle to win the publicly funded £500m contract.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Well, that was noisy.
A Eurofighter just did a ten minute low level display over the town. Not sure aeroplanes should be able to do things like that.
A Eurofighter just did a ten minute low level display over the town. Not sure aeroplanes should be able to do things like that.
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
I blame their pilots.Hobiejoe wrote:Well, that was noisy.
A Eurofighter just did a ten minute low level display over the town. Not sure aeroplanes should be able to do things like that.
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ver-brexit
The article doesn't live up to the headline, I was expecting a more specific comparison, she's done better than Lady Jane Grey so can't be her.The shadow international trade secretary, Barry Gardiner, also spoke out against May’s plans. “The logic of saying the prime minister can trigger article 50 without first setting out to parliament the terms and basis upon which her government seeks to negotiate – indeed, without even indicating the red lines she will seek to protect – would be to diminish parliament and assume the arrogant powers of a Tudor monarch.
“Parliament cannot be sidelined from the greatest constitutional change our country has debated in 40 years,” he added.
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Aren't all Labour MPs supposed to be concentrating on the important stuff, the leadership contest?tinybgoat wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ver-brexit
The article doesn't live up to the headline, I was expecting a more specific comparison, she's done better than Lady Jane Grey so can't be her.The shadow international trade secretary, Barry Gardiner, also spoke out against May’s plans. “The logic of saying the prime minister can trigger article 50 without first setting out to parliament the terms and basis upon which her government seeks to negotiate – indeed, without even indicating the red lines she will seek to protect – would be to diminish parliament and assume the arrogant powers of a Tudor monarch.
“Parliament cannot be sidelined from the greatest constitutional change our country has debated in 40 years,” he added.
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
The obvious analogy I suppose would be Henry VIII who unilaterally decided to extricate England from the Roman Catholic Church. Although comparing the disruption that will be caused by May acting on the result of an ill thought through referendum to the upheaval spawned by Henry VIII's personal desire* for a divorce is perhaps a bit harsh. Besides, parliament (in its infinite stupidity) passed the referendum act that precipitated current events, so saying parliament hasn't been consulted is, quite simply, factually wrong.tinybgoat wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ver-brexit
The article doesn't live up to the headline, I was expecting a more specific comparison, she's done better than Lady Jane Grey so can't be her.The shadow international trade secretary, Barry Gardiner, also spoke out against May’s plans. “The logic of saying the prime minister can trigger article 50 without first setting out to parliament the terms and basis upon which her government seeks to negotiate – indeed, without even indicating the red lines she will seek to protect – would be to diminish parliament and assume the arrogant powers of a Tudor monarch.
“Parliament cannot be sidelined from the greatest constitutional change our country has debated in 40 years,” he added.
*I'm well aware this is a gross simplification and has been put this way purely for facetious effect.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
He can do both, besides, multitasking's a prerequisite of being in the shadow cabinet now.StephenDolan wrote:Aren't all Labour MPs supposed to be concentrating on the important stuff, the leadership contest?tinybgoat wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ver-brexit
The article doesn't live up to the headline, I was expecting a more specific comparison, she's done better than Lady Jane Grey so can't be her.The shadow international trade secretary, Barry Gardiner, also spoke out against May’s plans. “The logic of saying the prime minister can trigger article 50 without first setting out to parliament the terms and basis upon which her government seeks to negotiate – indeed, without even indicating the red lines she will seek to protect – would be to diminish parliament and assume the arrogant powers of a Tudor monarch.
“Parliament cannot be sidelined from the greatest constitutional change our country has debated in 40 years,” he added.
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Technically that casts Liz Truss in Thomas More's role, although suspect Johnson/Davies/Fox are better comparisons.Willow904 wrote:The obvious analogy I suppose would be Henry VIII who unilaterally decided to extricate England from the Roman Catholic Church. Although comparing the disruption that will be caused by May acting on the result of an ill thought through referendum to the upheaval spawned by Henry VIII's personal desire* for a divorce is perhaps a bit harsh. Besides, parliament (in its infinite stupidity) passed the referendum act that precipitated current events, so saying parliament hasn't been consulted is, quite simply, factually wrong.tinybgoat wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ver-brexit
The article doesn't live up to the headline, I was expecting a more specific comparison, she's done better than Lady Jane Grey so can't be her.The shadow international trade secretary, Barry Gardiner, also spoke out against May’s plans. “The logic of saying the prime minister can trigger article 50 without first setting out to parliament the terms and basis upon which her government seeks to negotiate – indeed, without even indicating the red lines she will seek to protect – would be to diminish parliament and assume the arrogant powers of a Tudor monarch.
“Parliament cannot be sidelined from the greatest constitutional change our country has debated in 40 years,” he added.
*I'm well aware this is a gross simplification and has been put this way purely for facetious effect.
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
If May is Henry VIII breaking with Europe, then the pro-EU Liz Truss sort of mirrors her Lord Chancellor predecessor More, but I doubt she'd put her job on the line to oppose May on Brexit, let alone her neck! Thankfully, the analogy to Tudor monarchs is proving to be pretty slim, after all, and our modern day schism with the continent will hopefully prove rather less bloody.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-rock-bhsDominic Chappell to wind up company involved in BHS acquisition
Swiss Rock will cease trading this week as controversial entrepreneur moves family assets out of reach of investigators
By putting Swiss Rock into administration, Chappell could walk away from its debts, which are thought to include a tax bill on his earnings from BHS. (Guardian)
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... tfall-cityBrexit will put 75% of workers at risk of pension shortfall
People will have to save more for pensions to have income they were on course for before Britain voted out, say City experts
Only 25% of people now have a good chance of meeting the level of retirement income regarded as appropriate by the DWP
The Brexit vote is having “terrifying” effects on the pension schemes of millions of British workers, with 75% of people now expected to have a retirement income below the government’s recommended level, City experts warn.
Leading pensions consultants Hymans Robertson say the combination of interest rates and weaker projections for growth post-Brexit mean people will have to save far more towards their pensions to receive the level of income they were on course for before Britain voted to leave the EU. (Observer)
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
refitman wrote:Morning extankie. I've changed your post title to be for the entire bank holiday.extankie wrote:Morning all:)
All hail the weekend!
(Except those who don`t like weekends)
Many thanks, often said I`m a bit dim:)
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
BrexiteersPorFavor wrote:Brexit will put 75% of workers at risk of pension shortfall
People will have to save more for pensions to have income they were on course for before Britain voted out, say City experts
Only 25% of people now have a good chance of meeting the level of retirement income regarded as appropriate by the DWP
The Brexit vote is having “terrifying” effects on the pension schemes of millions of British workers, with 75% of people now expected to have a retirement income below the government’s recommended level, City experts warn.
Leading pensions consultants Hymans Robertson say the combination of interest rates and weaker projections for growth post-Brexit mean people will have to save far more towards their pensions to receive the level of income they were on course for before Britain voted to leave the EU. (Observer)
https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/ ... tfall-city
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
On how it is human nature to seek out only those views we find congenial, and this fuels partisanship
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Tweet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Tweet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... referendum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Mary Dejevsky (discussed here https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... nane_mary/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; by Craig Murray ) in bid to out-Tudor May.
Mary Dejevsky (discussed here https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... nane_mary/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; by Craig Murray ) in bid to out-Tudor May.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
From a few months ago, but pertinent nevertheless:
TinyClanger: flicking the vs so you don't have toThe question of what is propaganda and what is truth has plagued politics since politics began. But the nature of information in the social media age means it keeps getting easier for politicians, partisans, computerized “bots” and foreign governments to manipulate news, and it keeps getting harder to correct this. Fact-checkers are, for the moment, one of the best solutions. But they work only for people who want them to work, and that number may be shrinking.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... d032434af7" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Not well judged IMO
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... ed-8719591" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... ed-8719591" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
I don't think he is that popular these days, tbh.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Why not?AnatolyKasparov wrote:I don't think he is that popular these days, tbh.
http://www.cityam.com/208400/business-p ... red-people" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/discover" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://news.sky.com/story/richard-brans ... l-10389093" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Contrary evidence?
I don't think that is necessarily justified
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v36/n06/david-runc ... e-stuntman" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But even if it were true, then it is still a truly dumb thing for McDonnell to suggest.
McDonnell, during the campaign, has returned to type.
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Branson may not be popular, but mentioning him against the backdrop of the Philip Green saga and questions about knighthoods undermines the broader argument about fat cats being inappropriately rewarded with honours, as it comes across as a petty personal vendetta rather than an objective argument. Branson isn't currently in the news for losing ordinary peoples pensions or anything like that, just for getting in a personal row with Corbyn, so it comes across as "he should lose his knighthood for disagreeing with the Labour leader", I'm afraid.AnatolyKasparov wrote:I don't think he is that popular these days, tbh.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Good-morning, everyone.
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
I'm away from home and using a borrowed device. I've come to say hello and see the news.
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Not necessarily disagreeing there, just saying he isn't now the "pop culture icon" that he was back in 1997 when all parties earnestly (and vainly) sought his endorsement.Willow904 wrote:Branson may not be popular, but mentioning him against the backdrop of the Philip Green saga and questions about knighthoods undermines the broader argument about fat cats being inappropriately rewarded with honours, as it comes across as a petty personal vendetta rather than an objective argument. Branson isn't currently in the news for losing ordinary peoples pensions or anything like that, just for getting in a personal row with Corbyn, so it comes across as "he should lose his knighthood for disagreeing with the Labour leader", I'm afraid.AnatolyKasparov wrote:I don't think he is that popular these days, tbh.
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Willow904 wrote:Branson may not be popular, but mentioning him against the backdrop of the Philip Green saga and questions about knighthoods undermines the broader argument about fat cats being inappropriately rewarded with honours, as it comes across as a petty personal vendetta rather than an objective argument. Branson isn't currently in the news for losing ordinary peoples pensions or anything like that, just for getting in a personal row with Corbyn, so it comes across as "he should lose his knighthood for disagreeing with the Labour leader", I'm afraid.AnatolyKasparov wrote:I don't think he is that popular these days, tbh.
Good morning all
I think this sums it up pretty well....I don't think the intention was to suggest Branson loses an honour for disagreeing with Corbyn but was mentioned as being an example of the megarich who receive honours for little reason and spend their time trying to give as little back as possible
I find Branson an absolutely appalling, self-aggrandising individual who has lost any claim to entrepreneurship many years ago...he is another who sucks at the teat of the public purse. It does not mean that McDonnell was wise in using him as an example for this at this time though
Sometimes you just wish people would just think a little bit before opening their mouths.....it just gives ammunition and hides the tour message
I am also again disappointed at the reaction of Woodcock (I think those last four letters sum up my view of this particular MP) and Owen Smith
I would just say to Smith that accepting Branson's view of things on this subject without a critical eye does not endear him to the membership and makes him look a bit weak. The Virgin press release was selective and was made to make their case look better
H could have handles this a bit better in my view - in terms of the Labour leadership election i think his pronouncements will have lost him more than he has gained - I know I found them so
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
The comments btl suggest this article went down a treat with the "out" voters, but there are some major holes. If it's democratic to ask the nation whether or not they want to be in the EU, surely it's just as democratic to follow this up by asking them whether or not they want to be in the single market, whether or not they want to stop all immigration, whether or not they want to withdraw from the ECHR etc etc. Indeed, there are so many questions, perhaps it would be best if all the parties put together a list of their preferred options and people voted according to which they liked best. We could call it a general election and whoever won would have a mandate to implement their list according to the principles of representative democracy, which is the kind of democracy we have, however much some might prefer to override this with direct democracy when it suits them, and only when it suits them judging by the howls of "foul" when Smith suggests having a further referendum with a different question.tinyclanger2 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... referendum
Mary Dejevsky (discussed here https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... nane_mary/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; by Craig Murray ) in bid to out-Tudor May.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
I've got to return the device I'm using to one with better claim it. I'll read everyone again soon.
I love you.
cJA
I love you.
cJA
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Your absence is a reason why it was so quiet here yesterday. You are always missed when you are not contributing.citizenJA wrote:I'm away from home and using a borrowed device. I've come to say hello and see the news.
Have fun
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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- Prime Minister
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Paul Mason
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... se-8722027" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just sad now, IMO.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/la ... se-8722027" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Just sad now, IMO.
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- First Secretary of State
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Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
Willow904 wrote:The comments btl suggest this article went down a treat with the "out" voters, but there are some major holes. If it's democratic to ask the nation whether or not they want to be in the EU, surely it's just as democratic to follow this up by asking them whether or not they want to be in the single market, whether or not they want to stop all immigration, whether or not they want to withdraw from the ECHR etc etc. Indeed, there are so many questions, perhaps it would be best if all the parties put together a list of their preferred options and people voted according to which they liked best. We could call it a general election and whoever won would have a mandate to implement their list according to the principles of representative democracy, which is the kind of democracy we have, however much some might prefer to override this with direct democracy when it suits them, and only when it suits them judging by the howls of "foul" when Smith suggests having a further referendum with a different question.tinyclanger2 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... referendum
Mary Dejevsky (discussed here https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives ... nane_mary/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; by Craig Murray ) in bid to out-Tudor May.
I have a problem with the second referendum to be honest - it is not that I am against the principle of being able to go back to the people it is just that the way the process works as I see it doesn't look realistic.
I may be wrong but I just can't see where it fits in apart from in one place....
The chronology that we are looking at is:
British Government (incompetently) devises a British 'Exit' scenario
Shares that with British People
Has referendum to gain approval for initial position
Invoke A50
Defines Exit conditions with EU and starts preliminary talks on Trade
Has referendum to gain approval for agreed deal
Exits EU
Finalises Trade Deal
Has referendum to gain approval for trade deal
Brexit and UK future trade relationship completed
I have put in three possible timings for a second referendum
The first seems to be the one that would do the least harm long term (apart from making us look stupid of course) but I cannot see how this would work in practice as the Government's initial position will bear only a limited influence on the final decision. This is the only point a referendum could halt Brexit though in my view
The second one would be incredibly damaging as we would have gone all the way through the negotiation and have a deal but if this was rejected by the British people it would cause massive damage....we would leave the EU without any deal and there would be no real going back on Exit anyway so we have the worst of both worlds
The final one is just windowdressing to be honest....
Now, I know that there are some who feel that we should wait until we have an essentially agreed deal before we invoke A50, so in effect the negotiations will all be completed before we even give notice to leave. Personally, I think this is whistling in the wind - I have seen zero evidence that the EU will allow us to negotiate like this before we invoke A50.....
Again, this is all down to that idiot Cameron and his lack of thought before the referendum. He never indicated that the result was anything but binding, and neither did anyone else for that matter. The Remain camp were particularly loud about this as they wanted to block any further vote in the event of a narrow Remain win.
These tactics have now backfired, and although there may be a political argument (although perhaps not legal one) for Parliamentary approval prior to Exit, we are on the road to Exit and only a great disturbance in the Force will prevent it now
Re: Bank holiday weekend: 27th, 28th & 29th August
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... gle-market" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
There's no mandate for either option, this is May's essential problem. People weren't asked if they wanted to curb immigration or if they want to remain in the single market. A vote to leave the EU gives us no insight into people's thoughts on these issues. There is far too much being tied to the EU vote which, although not unreasonable inferences are just that - inferences. Guesswork doesn't provide a sound basis for a mandate for such a huge decision. We need an election or further referendums in order to provide the democratic mandate on which to proceed. That's not to say we'll get one, but May does need to be challenged on the democratic basis for her decisions at every step.A number of senior figures, including the chancellor, Philip Hammond, according to the Sunday Times, are thought to believe that all options including staying part of the economic area should remain on the table.
But many Brexit campaigners, including cabinet members David Davis and Liam Fox who will lead negotiations, are thought to believe Britain may have to quit the single market in order to impose adequate border controls.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb