Monday 5th September 2016
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Monday 5th September 2016
Morning all.
- tinyclanger2
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- tinyclanger2
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- tinyclanger2
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
For understatement of my lifetime:
it was much worse than thatReferring to David Cameron’s decision to hold a referendum, he said: “It was a terrible misjudgment and miscalculation. I would have preferred us to stay in and continue to work for change in Europe, which was beginning to happen at a faster pace.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ted-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
- danesclose
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Good morning all:
Rowson on May & the G20 summit:
Steve Bell's If is also amusing today:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-revealed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rowson on May & the G20 summit:
Steve Bell's If is also amusing today:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... s-revealed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Proud to be part of The Indecent Minority.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 25166.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
More Poles attacked in Harlow (where Arek Jóźwik was murdered.)
I take it the "decent people" behind this are the voice of Brexit Britain.
More Poles attacked in Harlow (where Arek Jóźwik was murdered.)
I take it the "decent people" behind this are the voice of Brexit Britain.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Glad to hear the focus group interpretation is that Brexit means Brexit.
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Good morfternoon.
RogerOThornhill posted this last night but here it is again for your delight and delectation -
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... on-and-nhs
Edited - typo
RogerOThornhill posted this last night but here it is again for your delight and delectation -
Anyway - about that referendum re-run . . . .Theresa May refuses to commit to Brexit pledges on NHS and immigration
Her decision not to endorse the key planks of the Vote Leave manifesto may anger some of the electorate who thought they were voting for firm pledges made by politicians now senior in May’s government, such as Boris Johnson. (Guardian)
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... on-and-nhs
Edited - typo
Last edited by PorFavor on Mon 05 Sep, 2016 8:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Corbyn suggests members get a say in shadow cabinet membership
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ons-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That'll work.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ons-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That'll work.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
The MPs choosing could be interesting given how many have said they won't serve under Corbyn's leadership!SpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn suggests members get a say in shadow cabinet membership
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ons-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That'll work.
You do it, no you do it!
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
I suspect there could be a few volunteers for shadow Chancellor. Corbyn really would have to start discussing policy with MPs outside his camp if that came to pass.StephenDolan wrote:The MPs choosing could be interesting given how many have said they won't serve under Corbyn's leadership!SpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn suggests members get a say in shadow cabinet membership
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ons-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That'll work.
You do it, no you do it!
I tend to sympathise with Ed's position that a shadow leader needs to be able to choose their team. But also MPs need to be able to choose their leader. Ed Balls comments about the change to leadership elections is strange as Ed's new system allowed just that. Why MPs nominated someone they felt unable to serve under remains unfathomable to me and ranks alongside the poor oversight of the EU referendum proposals - opposition failed to challenge the question, the timescale of the debate or any of it that I remember. Are MPs getting thicker or something?
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
StephenDolan wrote:The MPs choosing could be interesting given how many have said they won't serve under Corbyn's leadership!SpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn suggests members get a say in shadow cabinet membership
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ons-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That'll work.
You do it, no you do it!
The point of that proporals is to give the MPs back control of the shadow cabinet. They'd all serve then, and attempt to run it ignoring JC.
Which is why he opposes it.
Ad why he has put forward this crackpot 'members decide' alternative.
Balls said MPs should serve in the shadow cabinet yesterday I see. Interesting as to the way the wind is blowing.
Appear to cooperate, try to remove again in two years?
Won't work of course, but then nothing will. Death throes now.
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/ ... udi-arabiaMPs to urge ban on UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia
After four attacks on hospitals and many civilian deaths in Yemen, MPs are pressing the arms control committee to suspend weapons sales to Saudi Arabia
Fresh calls for a UK ban on arms sales to Saudi Arabia are due to be made this week when the powerful all-party select committee on arms export controls meets to finalise a report expected to be deeply critical of the 18-month Saudi-led bombing campaign in Yemen.
A cross-party push will be made for the committee to urge the UK to suspend its multibillion-pound arms sales to Saudi Arabia in a move that would infuriate Riyadh, unnerve arms manufacturers and embarrass the Conservative government. (Guardian)
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Morning all.
My birthday today so help yourselves to some cake.
At the ripe old age of 57 I don't need to work, in the process of getting my doctorate, strong likelihood of post-doctoral study, and getting very interested in a local history project after going to a "trace your house history" event run by the local library.
Life is good. So please don't spoil it by banging on about Corbyn and the leadership eh?
Oh, and it's raining for the first day back at school...
My birthday today so help yourselves to some cake.
At the ripe old age of 57 I don't need to work, in the process of getting my doctorate, strong likelihood of post-doctoral study, and getting very interested in a local history project after going to a "trace your house history" event run by the local library.
Life is good. So please don't spoil it by banging on about Corbyn and the leadership eh?
Oh, and it's raining for the first day back at school...
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
If anyone wants something to wile away the hours, there's some fantastic maps available here. And yes, I know it says Scotland but England and Wales are available too. I found a wonderfully detailed one of my area from the early 60s that I spent ages poring over last night.
http://maps.nls.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://maps.nls.uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Happy Birthday Dr R!
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
that's the kind of high quality showing off that brings out the in meRogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.
My birthday today so help yourselves to some cake.
At the ripe old age of 57 I don't need to work, in the process of getting my doctorate, strong likelihood of post-doctoral study, and getting very interested in a local history project after going to a "trace your house history" event run by the local library.
Life is good. So please don't spoil it by banging on about Corbyn and the leadership eh?
Oh, and it's raining for the first day back at school...
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Happy birthday Roger, hope you have a great day.
Local project sounds fascinating. I've done a few community based studies but generally starting from the current people living in the community with their history and that of the overall community as the context in which to understand their views. Do you have any details or contacts for more information?
Cake is wonderful, thanks.
Morning all.
Local project sounds fascinating. I've done a few community based studies but generally starting from the current people living in the community with their history and that of the overall community as the context in which to understand their views. Do you have any details or contacts for more information?
Cake is wonderful, thanks.
Morning all.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Prospects for a Red-Green alliance
https://www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/t ... ns9dM3vz7E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Penultimate paragraph is why it might happen sometime I suppose.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/marieleconte/t ... ns9dM3vz7E" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Penultimate paragraph is why it might happen sometime I suppose.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Answers to questions 2, 3 and 8 are the most interesting
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/02/8- ... dership-e/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Answers of Corbyn supporters to question 2 evidence of paranoia, IMO).
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/09/02/8- ... dership-e/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(Answers of Corbyn supporters to question 2 evidence of paranoia, IMO).
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
I admit to having a) done the survey and b) recognised the outcome (according to this I'm 65% northerner)https://www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/what ... ou4ogL3ZRa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Like all the best people, there's definitely more north in you than south. But you've probably spent enough time in the company of southerners to make you see that they're not *all* bad. Wherever you end up, the north will always be your home, but there's a lot more of the world you still need to see before you head home to buy a massive house for less than £200k...
Enter PaulfromYorkshire, chased by a whippet.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Good morning
I like to see how certain Labour politicians are able to leave their past behind them and seen to be taken as oracles for the future
Old Man Kinnock (who I do have some modicum of respect for, well did) who managed to lose two elections including 1992
Mandelson who was sacked twice from cabinet for shady goings on
Ed Balls who managed to lose his own seat and failed to land a glove on Osborne over such a ridiculous policy such as austerity. Also he was at least significantly to blame for Labour being blamed for the financial crisis due to the false perception of 'overspending'
Until those people and their supporters start to show some humility and a modicum of responsibility then I think those of us who (in some cases reluctantly) support Corbyn are fully entitled to ignore what they say
The malaise within Labour started long before September 2015 but reading some people on here you would not begin to believe that was the case
We lost in 2010 and 2015 and struggled in 2005...there was no indication of any real soul searching about that from those in charge.
I like to see how certain Labour politicians are able to leave their past behind them and seen to be taken as oracles for the future
Old Man Kinnock (who I do have some modicum of respect for, well did) who managed to lose two elections including 1992
Mandelson who was sacked twice from cabinet for shady goings on
Ed Balls who managed to lose his own seat and failed to land a glove on Osborne over such a ridiculous policy such as austerity. Also he was at least significantly to blame for Labour being blamed for the financial crisis due to the false perception of 'overspending'
Until those people and their supporters start to show some humility and a modicum of responsibility then I think those of us who (in some cases reluctantly) support Corbyn are fully entitled to ignore what they say
The malaise within Labour started long before September 2015 but reading some people on here you would not begin to believe that was the case
We lost in 2010 and 2015 and struggled in 2005...there was no indication of any real soul searching about that from those in charge.
Last edited by howsillyofme1 on Mon 05 Sep, 2016 9:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
@RogerOThornhill
Happy birthday!
Happy birthday!
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Vaz
Corbyn now saying it should be seen as a private matter and left alone.
Not sure about that give how he seems to have paid.
Updated for linked report
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 36496.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Corbyn now saying it should be seen as a private matter and left alone.
Not sure about that give how he seems to have paid.
Updated for linked report
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 36496.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by SpinningHugo on Mon 05 Sep, 2016 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Sorry Roger....didn't see your post
Happy birthday
Happy birthday
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
I'm 63% northerner. I think it's brokentinyclanger2 wrote:I admit to having a) done the survey and b) recognised the outcome (according to this I'm 65% northerner)https://www.buzzfeed.com/robinedds/what ... ou4ogL3ZRa" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Like all the best people, there's definitely more north in you than south. But you've probably spent enough time in the company of southerners to make you see that they're not *all* bad. Wherever you end up, the north will always be your home, but there's a lot more of the world you still need to see before you head home to buy a massive house for less than £200k...
Enter PaulfromYorkshire, chased by a whippet.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Oh and happy birthday RogerOThornhill!
Though I did think it was traditional to bring doughnuts, rather than cake on your own birthday. Or is that a West Country Northern thing? We do like to do things differently here in the West Country North.
Though I did think it was traditional to bring doughnuts, rather than cake on your own birthday. Or is that a West Country Northern thing? We do like to do things differently here in the West Country North.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
I thought the West Country was Basque anyway?
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
howsillyofme1 wrote: The malaise within Labour started long before September 2015 but reading some people on here you would not begin to believe that was the case
Yes. It began in 2007.
Being serious, it really began on 11 September 2001. The subsequent Iraq War was the beginning of the end for a Labour party that could win. That is only becoming apparent now.
Someone on twitter was posting a future History GCSE question of "Did Ed Miliband destroy the Labour party?". I think my answer would be that he sped up its demise (in the sense of its no longer being a party of government, it won't disappear), but that the real villain was Blair. He was the one who killed the prospects for the kind of politics he represented.
A few days ago when I was moaning about Corbyn appearing on and taking money from Iranian State TV, a regime that murders people for being gay, some replied what about Blair taking money from some equally unsavoury regimes after leaving office? My view? An awful thing to have done, by at a minimum giving the impression of personal greed trumping principle he has harmed the very causes he should be defending.
Blair is like Corbyn in that he is so certain of his own personal rectitude that it leads him into doing some truly dumb things.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Happy birthday Roger, cake looks lush.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
At our place the lazy ones just bought doughniuts, and the even lazier ones (like me) got their other halves to bake some cakes...Willow904 wrote:Oh and happy birthday RogerOThornhill!
Though I did think it was traditional to bring doughnuts, rather than cake on your own birthday. Or is that a West Country Northern thing? We do like to do things differently here in the West Country North.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
I once managed to get an Italian colleague to bake a cake for me ... (even put a reminder in outlook)RogerOThornhill wrote:At our place the lazy ones just bought doughniuts, and the even lazier ones (like me) got their other halves to bake some cakes...Willow904 wrote:Oh and happy birthday RogerOThornhill!
Though I did think it was traditional to bring doughnuts, rather than cake on your own birthday. Or is that a West Country Northern thing? We do like to do things differently here in the West Country North.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
I see the latest financial numbers are again showing the acute effects of Brexit are not appearing, and more importantly, not hurting
The chronic effects will not be felt for a while, and possibly not until we see A50 invocation, with a lag
The failure of there to be an acute effect is undermining the arguments for second referenda or rowing back on Brexit
When the, likely inevitable, downturn happens will it be blamed on Brexit or will the press spin it differently?
It is ironic that in order for us to have a chance of changing people's minds we need to see a sharp effect, but that would need A50 to be invoked (in my view) which the Remain camp are completely against and which also starts the countdown to Exit which will be difficult to stop
Seems more and more likely to me that we are on our way out
The chronic effects will not be felt for a while, and possibly not until we see A50 invocation, with a lag
The failure of there to be an acute effect is undermining the arguments for second referenda or rowing back on Brexit
When the, likely inevitable, downturn happens will it be blamed on Brexit or will the press spin it differently?
It is ironic that in order for us to have a chance of changing people's minds we need to see a sharp effect, but that would need A50 to be invoked (in my view) which the Remain camp are completely against and which also starts the countdown to Exit which will be difficult to stop
Seems more and more likely to me that we are on our way out
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
V interesting on whether the PLP can unilaterally re-instate shadow cabinet elections.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... binet-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They no doubt will, and the interesting question is what happens next after Corbyn wins? Can he ignore? Do we have two shadow cabinets?
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... binet-vote" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They no doubt will, and the interesting question is what happens next after Corbyn wins? Can he ignore? Do we have two shadow cabinets?
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
1m ago 10:07
No 10 says points-based immigration system 'will not work and is not an option'
Speaking to reporters on her flight to China Theresa May appeared to rule out introducing a points-based immigration system. (See 9.33am.) Downing Street has now gone even further and ruled out the idea unequivocally. (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
So what are they planning given that migration from non-EU countries outstrips those from the EU IIRC?PorFavor wrote:1m ago 10:07
No 10 says points-based immigration system 'will not work and is not an option'
Speaking to reporters on her flight to China Theresa May appeared to rule out introducing a points-based immigration system. (See 9.33am.) Downing Street has now gone even further and ruled out the idea unequivocally. (Politics Live, Guardian)
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
perhaps we could arrange for an ice age barrier to break, leading to a megaflood and the separation of Britain from the nasty foreigners who had just populated it. then we could stop any immigration at all
... oh
... oh
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
We're the Northern Basque!tinyclanger2 wrote:I thought the West Country was Basque anyway?
Actually, probably not. Interestingly enough, North East Somerset was coal mining country back in the days of Victorian mine owners and sending kids down pits. The last pit closed in 1973, so we weren't involved in the miners' strike, but pigeon fancying is a popular local hobby and pockets of Labour support persist where the old social clubs are still going, despite most industry (primarily printing, though shoe and bootmaking were also common) leaving in recent decades. So there are echoes of the industrial north in my corner of the West Country, but that echo is getting fainter all the time.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
SpinningHugo wrote:howsillyofme1 wrote: The malaise within Labour started long before September 2015 but reading some people on here you would not begin to believe that was the case
Yes. It began in 2007.
Being serious, it really began on 11 September 2001. The subsequent Iraq War was the beginning of the end for a Labour party that could win. That is only becoming apparent now.
Someone on twitter was posting a future History GCSE question of "Did Ed Miliband destroy the Labour party?". I think my answer would be that he sped up its demise (in the sense of its no longer being a party of government, it won't disappear), but that the real villain was Blair. He was the one who killed the prospects for the kind of politics he represented.
A few days ago when I was moaning about Corbyn appearing on and taking money from Iranian State TV, a regime that murders people for being gay, some replied what about Blair taking money from some equally unsavoury regimes after leaving office? My view? An awful thing to have done, by at a minimum giving the impression of personal greed trumping principle he has harmed the very causes he should be defending.
Blair is like Corbyn in that he is so certain of his own personal rectitude that it leads him into doing some truly dumb things.
Let's be very clear about this, I was not complaining merely about Blair's post premiership grasping love of gold, but to his corrupt shutting down of an investigation into illegal arms sales whilst in office - arms which are now being used to murder children - something you claimed there was no evidence of, until Blair's own words andmultiple reports pproved - yet again - the mendacity of your contribution.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
I don't recall our having any conversation about this, but we must have done if you say so.Temulkar wrote:SpinningHugo wrote:howsillyofme1 wrote: The malaise within Labour started long before September 2015 but reading some people on here you would not begin to believe that was the case
Yes. It began in 2007.
Being serious, it really began on 11 September 2001. The subsequent Iraq War was the beginning of the end for a Labour party that could win. That is only becoming apparent now.
Someone on twitter was posting a future History GCSE question of "Did Ed Miliband destroy the Labour party?". I think my answer would be that he sped up its demise (in the sense of its no longer being a party of government, it won't disappear), but that the real villain was Blair. He was the one who killed the prospects for the kind of politics he represented.
A few days ago when I was moaning about Corbyn appearing on and taking money from Iranian State TV, a regime that murders people for being gay, some replied what about Blair taking money from some equally unsavoury regimes after leaving office? My view? An awful thing to have done, by at a minimum giving the impression of personal greed trumping principle he has harmed the very causes he should be defending.
Blair is like Corbyn in that he is so certain of his own personal rectitude that it leads him into doing some truly dumb things.
Let's be very clear about this, I was not complaining merely about Blair's post premiership grasping love of gold, but to his corrupt shutting down of an investigation into illegal arms sales whilst in office - arms which are now being used to murder children - something you claimed there was no evidence of, until Blair's own words andmultiple reports pproved - yet again - the mendacity of your contribution.
But, for the sake of argument, let us assume that all you say is true. A disgusting way to behave.
Now, how does that make Corbyn's appearance on and payment from Iranian State tv ok?
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Ignore lists.
There for a reason.
There for a reason.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Labour right wingers supported the changes as they thought it would benefit them. Now its clear they don't, they don't.Willow904 wrote:I suspect there could be a few volunteers for shadow Chancellor. Corbyn really would have to start discussing policy with MPs outside his camp if that came to pass.StephenDolan wrote:The MPs choosing could be interesting given how many have said they won't serve under Corbyn's leadership!SpinningHugo wrote:Corbyn suggests members get a say in shadow cabinet membership
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/201 ... ons-labour" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That'll work.
You do it, no you do it!
I tend to sympathise with Ed's position that a shadow leader needs to be able to choose their team. But also MPs need to be able to choose their leader. Ed Balls comments about the change to leadership elections is strange as Ed's new system allowed just that. Why MPs nominated someone they felt unable to serve under remains unfathomable to me and ranks alongside the poor oversight of the EU referendum proposals - opposition failed to challenge the question, the timescale of the debate or any of it that I remember. Are MPs getting thicker or something?
Its part of a more general malaise amongst them, though - they don't have any compelling vision to win people over, just one short term tactical "fix" after another.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Seems as if a great many of those who voted "Out" have been stitched up like a kipper . . . .
(They haven't done any of the rest of us any favours, mind. I feel like a rat in a trap.)
(They haven't done any of the rest of us any favours, mind. I feel like a rat in a trap.)
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Indeed. There's no discernible attempt to win over the membership etc. Stating the obvious, 1997 is approaching 20 years ago. Times have changed.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Labour right wingers supported the changes as they thought it would benefit them. Now its clear they don't, they don't.Willow904 wrote:I suspect there could be a few volunteers for shadow Chancellor. Corbyn really would have to start discussing policy with MPs outside his camp if that came to pass.StephenDolan wrote: The MPs choosing could be interesting given how many have said they won't serve under Corbyn's leadership!
You do it, no you do it!
I tend to sympathise with Ed's position that a shadow leader needs to be able to choose their team. But also MPs need to be able to choose their leader. Ed Balls comments about the change to leadership elections is strange as Ed's new system allowed just that. Why MPs nominated someone they felt unable to serve under remains unfathomable to me and ranks alongside the poor oversight of the EU referendum proposals - opposition failed to challenge the question, the timescale of the debate or any of it that I remember. Are MPs getting thicker or something?
Its part of a more general malaise amongst them, though - they don't have any compelling vision to win people over, just one short term tactical "fix" after another.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
You mean in the same way that others opposed the change because they thought it wouldn't favour them, but now support it?AnatolyKasparov wrote:Labour right wingers supported the changes as they thought it would benefit them. Now its clear they don't, they don't.Willow904 wrote:I suspect there could be a few volunteers for shadow Chancellor. Corbyn really would have to start discussing policy with MPs outside his camp if that came to pass.StephenDolan wrote: The MPs choosing could be interesting given how many have said they won't serve under Corbyn's leadership!
You do it, no you do it!
I tend to sympathise with Ed's position that a shadow leader needs to be able to choose their team. But also MPs need to be able to choose their leader. Ed Balls comments about the change to leadership elections is strange as Ed's new system allowed just that. Why MPs nominated someone they felt unable to serve under remains unfathomable to me and ranks alongside the poor oversight of the EU referendum proposals - opposition failed to challenge the question, the timescale of the debate or any of it that I remember. Are MPs getting thicker or something?
Its part of a more general malaise amongst them, though - they don't have any compelling vision to win people over, just one short term tactical "fix" after another.
the Labour right (indeed everyone who is not a paid up Corbyn supporter) is doomed longterm within Labour. The Campaign group won and will be in charge for the foreseeable future.
I'd be surprised if many of the PLP went back to serve under Corbyn. They'd look like idiots now. How could they go in front of Andrew Neil?
I think this is going to be the next battleground. They'll reinstate the elections and Corbyn will refuse to recognise it. We'll then have a row over who is the shadow cabinet.
What fun!
Professor O'Hara is, as usual good on this kind of thing
http://publicpolicypast.blogspot.co.uk/ ... ation.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
see penultimate paragraph.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
i would have thought Owen Smith has made considerable efforts to do so, and the evil Bitterite PLP selected him as their standard bearer to try to do so?StephenDolan wrote:Indeed. There's no discernible attempt to win over the membership etc. Stating the obvious, 1997 is approaching 20 years ago. Times have changed.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Labour right wingers supported the changes as they thought it would benefit them. Now its clear they don't, they don't.Willow904 wrote: I suspect there could be a few volunteers for shadow Chancellor. Corbyn really would have to start discussing policy with MPs outside his camp if that came to pass.
I tend to sympathise with Ed's position that a shadow leader needs to be able to choose their team. But also MPs need to be able to choose their leader. Ed Balls comments about the change to leadership elections is strange as Ed's new system allowed just that. Why MPs nominated someone they felt unable to serve under remains unfathomable to me and ranks alongside the poor oversight of the EU referendum proposals - opposition failed to challenge the question, the timescale of the debate or any of it that I remember. Are MPs getting thicker or something?
Its part of a more general malaise amongst them, though - they don't have any compelling vision to win people over, just one short term tactical "fix" after another.
Times have indeed changed. Just not in a good way for the party that was once a party of government.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Happy Birthday Roger.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... nistration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... nistration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Childcare charity 4Children goes into administration
One of the country’s biggest childcare charities, which provided thousands of low-income families with nursery, after-school clubs and parenting services, has collapsed.
4Children, which was the government’s official Early Years strategic partner, went into administration after a rapid corporate expansion fuelled by private loans unravelled in the face of government cuts.
Charity leaders blamed the collapse of 4Children, a respected and nationally recognised charity, on an increasingly tight financial environment for charities delivering council-funded services and described it as a a warning sign to ministers about the sustainability of children’s services in a competitive public sector marketplace.
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... nistration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Childcare charity 4Children goes into administration
One of the country’s biggest childcare charities, which provided thousands of low-income families with nursery, after-school clubs and parenting services, has collapsed.
4Children, which was the government’s official Early Years strategic partner, went into administration after a rapid corporate expansion fuelled by private loans unravelled in the face of government cuts.
Charity leaders blamed the collapse of 4Children, a respected and nationally recognised charity, on an increasingly tight financial environment for charities delivering council-funded services and described it as a a warning sign to ministers about the sustainability of children’s services in a competitive public sector marketplace.
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Re: Monday 5th September 2016
Yes, he has. The problem is that because of how so many of Corbyn's opponents have behaved, many don't trust him.
(either that he genuinely believes in the programme he has set out, or that the "dark forces" in the party would ever allow him to implement it)
As I said yesterday, the "scorched earth" tactics of the Bitterites have proved as disastrous *and* counter-productive as many of us predicted.
(either that he genuinely believes in the programme he has set out, or that the "dark forces" in the party would ever allow him to implement it)
As I said yesterday, the "scorched earth" tactics of the Bitterites have proved as disastrous *and* counter-productive as many of us predicted.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"