Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
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Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
That well organised plot everyone around here believes in
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/th ... -supremacy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/th ... -supremacy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by refitman on Sat 24 Sep, 2016 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Added Sunday
Reason: Added Sunday
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Re: Saturday 24th September 2016
SpinningHugo wrote:That well organised plot everyone around here believes in
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/th ... -supremacy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I missed the reference to Conor McGinn when it came to the resignations?
Either way, it was a good read thanks.
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Re: Saturday 24th September 2016
Morning all.
I'm left woindering if there are any cabinet members s whose position on the EU is clear.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Daniel Knowles Verified account
@dlknowles
Daniel Knowles Retweeted David Jack
Both Gove & Osborne now making it known they opposed an EU referendum. Evidentially not hard enough
I would imagine there are quite a few people who now might regret being quite so enthusiastic about Gove and Gibb given the last few months.
I'm left woindering if there are any cabinet members s whose position on the EU is clear.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Daniel Knowles Verified account
@dlknowles
Daniel Knowles Retweeted David Jack
Both Gove & Osborne now making it known they opposed an EU referendum. Evidentially not hard enough
I would imagine there are quite a few people who now might regret being quite so enthusiastic about Gove and Gibb given the last few months.
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Re: Saturday 24th September 2016
@SH
It is normal practice to have one single thread for the weekend - could you change the title?
It is normal practice to have one single thread for the weekend - could you change the title?
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Re: Saturday 24th September 2016
The Indie say their poll shows Jeremy Corbyn is thought an 'election loser', 'incompetent' and 'out of touch' by working class and 2015 Labour voters
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 26486.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's not exactly unexpected, but unnerving to hear it on this of all mornings.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 26486.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It's not exactly unexpected, but unnerving to hear it on this of all mornings.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Not necessarily everyone - however it came about, it had the effect of allowing Clouncy Funt to clounce off unscathed from his humungous mess....following on from this and its' 'there ain't no coup I tell'ee', I'd like to raise a couple of points....SpinningHugo wrote:That well organised plot everyone around here believes in
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/th ... -supremacy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In a hastily convened conference call, Corbyn’s senior advisers discussed how to respond to a story that was about to appear in The Observer revealing that shadow foreign secretary Hilary Benn had been asking fellow shadow cabinet members whether they would call for Corbyn to resign, just hours after the party was defeated in the EU referendum.
Sorry - just run that by me again - just hours after the party was defeated in the EU referendum.
Is this not on a par with the bold UKIP statement of having 'won the election to get Britain out of the EU'? It is, I have to say, the first time I've seen it stated this way - I was totally unaware that it was Labours referendum to win or lose (or even party-political for that matter - I thought it was one of those times when we had a 'free vote' with everyone, irrespective of political colour, rallied to their own choice?)...
...and...
Or as another anti-Corbyn Labour MP put it: “People have slightly forgotten the referendum as the trigger for [the leadership challenge] out of sheer jaw-dropping disgust at how Corbyn performed. A lot of us do kind of blame him for losing a couple of percentage points and setting Britain on a different historic course.”
Really? 'Jaw-dropping disgust'? Is that even a 'thing'? I can't find the data now, but I have recently seen figures stating that some time before the referendum, Labour voters were 57% Remain - at the actual vote they were 63% Remain....but hey ho, someone somewhere has decided Corbyn is rubbish and unelectable, so he must be attacked and destroyed. (....and yes, I'm aware of the percieved shortfall in 'leadership' qualities....but, as he originally said - he wanted to be a different kind of leader - more inclusive and less authoritian...which, I believe(TM), can and has been done before (in terms of 'leadership')).
My own take on the post-Ref position by Corbyn (invoke Article 50 without delay) was a 'political' position - in other words, immediately and without delay focus all of the attention from the media onto the Clouncy Funt to, in some small way at least, hold him to account for the mess he made (and hold him to his pre-Ref 'promises' - i.e. 'invoke Article 50 without delay'.) My own expectation was for the Leader of the Opposition to hold the Prime Minister to account (or at least be allowed to try).
I could see that - but apparently no-one else could - 'cos Corbyns' crap/unelectable ad infinitum.
I did waver in my support for Corbyn around the time of the Ref - however, my support is stronger than ever now, due to the constant and ever-more shrill attacks on him personally....not much anywhere about the policies etc...and this 'he's unelectable' - if all the anti-Corbynites are able to see 4 years into the future with absolute clarity, perhaps one of them would like to give me the name of the winner of next years' Grand National (I jest of course, but for me that is how the 'unelectable' stuff looks - and, lest we forget, this is on day when he's expected to win another election).
To focus on something 4 years in the future, when 80 citizens a week are dying due to the inhumane policies of the current shower is, I believe(TM), negating some responsibility (a little maths says thats 80 per week x 182 weeks is 14,560 human lives)
Just for clarity, I am not now and have never been a member of the Labour party, I am a 'swing' voter and a known Miliband supporter, so should be on the target list for Labour - but I've espoused support for the Greens in the past as well, so I'm not convinced Labour wants my vote....and I remain an undeconstructed Marxist-collectivist grumpfuttock (who is also now, by dint of being a £3 Corbynista, a TrotrabbledogSturmAbteilungmoronanti-semiticdelusionalloony etc etc etc) living in Hope (yes still!...and still just north of Peterborough)
I apologise for anything I've said that might upset - I'm fully aware that people hold strong views and, as ever, other opinions are most definitely available...I also think it's a monumental shame that when Corbyn absolutely skewered May at PMQs (showing quite how out of her depth she is) more couldn't have been made of it....to hold Tory-dom to account and all that.
Proud to be 1 of the 76% - Solidarity...because PODEMOS
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Let's just ignore the planted press stories weeks and months in advance predicting pretty much what happened, then?SpinningHugo wrote:That well organised plot everyone around here believes in
https://www.buzzfeed.com/jimwaterson/th ... -supremacy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I don't deny there was a chaotic element to things in the aftermath of the seismic shock that was the referendum result.
But the likes of Benn knew exactly what they were doing.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Good morfternoon.
The BBC TV news is reporting a 77.6% turnout in the leadership election.
The BBC TV news is reporting a 77.6% turnout in the leadership election.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
If true, that is fractionally *up* on last year. Contrary to some predictions.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
- Lonewolfie
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
That took longer than it should've so am now late....however, in the spirit of 'other opinions are available', this for balance regarding Labour and anti-Semitism...
Stephane Savary, journalist for Scisco Media, met with Ariel Moshe and Yoni Higgsmith from Jewish Voice, a progressive and socialist Jewish organisation supportive of the Labour Party.
https://sciscomedia.co.uk/conversation-jewish-voice/
ttfn
Stephane Savary, journalist for Scisco Media, met with Ariel Moshe and Yoni Higgsmith from Jewish Voice, a progressive and socialist Jewish organisation supportive of the Labour Party.
https://sciscomedia.co.uk/conversation-jewish-voice/
ttfn
Proud to be 1 of the 76% - Solidarity...because PODEMOS
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
https://www.theguardian.com/public-lead ... are_btn_tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As public cuts leave people destitute, it's charity workers like me who pick up the pieces
As public cuts leave people destitute, it's charity workers like me who pick up the pieces
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the ... mg00000004" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Road Ahead
Kirk Douglas
The Road Ahead
Kirk Douglas
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
This reply to @LabourÉoin got a lot of attention, almost all positive, with some suggesting I add Clive Lewis (Shadow Defence) to the list.
My point, which I know I've made before, is that there is some excellent non-hard left talent in the Shadow Cabinet already. Some might even call these guys "moderate".
What they are not is Westminster media poodles. I just hope this is remembered in the debates about to start.
My point, which I know I've made before, is that there is some excellent non-hard left talent in the Shadow Cabinet already. Some might even call these guys "moderate".
What they are not is Westminster media poodles. I just hope this is remembered in the debates about to start.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Eoin seems to changed over the last year or so, didn't he not even support Corbyn last year or am I confusing him with someone else ?
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
yahyah I don't always agree with Éoin but I suspect like many he has swung behind Corbyn simply because he sees the attacks on him as disloyal and counterproductive.
I'm not seeking to re-open discussions on whether that is the right thing to do, lord knows we've been over that ground enough, but it's not a bizarre position to take IMO.
I'm not seeking to re-open discussions on whether that is the right thing to do, lord knows we've been over that ground enough, but it's not a bizarre position to take IMO.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
A significant number of Burnham supporters last year (Clarke being one) seem to have swung behind Corbyn now.
OTOH, some who backed JC then voted for Smith this time.
OTOH, some who backed JC then voted for Smith this time.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
That wasn't my point Paul.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
My observation is that nobody has come back with a single criticism of any of
Shadow Education - Rayner
Shadow DWP - Abrahams
Shadow Brexit - Thornberry
Shadow Defence - Lewis
and nothing more than a couple of snide observations on Burnham, still Shadow Home.
OK they don't have loads of political experience between them, but they are passionate, talented, engaging politicians who are not associated with the hard left. And on the up side have some great real world careers and life experience to bring to the House.
Shadow Education - Rayner
Shadow DWP - Abrahams
Shadow Brexit - Thornberry
Shadow Defence - Lewis
and nothing more than a couple of snide observations on Burnham, still Shadow Home.
OK they don't have loads of political experience between them, but they are passionate, talented, engaging politicians who are not associated with the hard left. And on the up side have some great real world careers and life experience to bring to the House.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Sorry! And (and I'm really not being snide) what was your point please?yahyah wrote:That wasn't my point Paul.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
About 62-38 to Corbyn is the rumour. If so then YouGov got it very close again.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
If Corbyn wins, I predict the next election won't be until 2020.
May will calculate that unless Corbyn steps down she can win in 2020 and therefore be in power until 2025. Going early will get a new decent opposition leader and a likely loss in 2021.
May will calculate that unless Corbyn steps down she can win in 2020 and therefore be in power until 2025. Going early will get a new decent opposition leader and a likely loss in 2021.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Britain Elects @britainelects 3m3 minutes ago
Labour leadership 2016, result:
J. Corbyn: 61.8% (313,209)
O. Smith: 38.2% (193,229)
Labour leadership 2016, result:
J. Corbyn: 61.8% (313,209)
O. Smith: 38.2% (193,229)
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Percentages not wildly different in the different categories.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Pushing on an open door but on the right side of the argument.
Incidentally, if May does a u-turn, then Gove - who came out in support of grammar schools - is going to look very silly and opportunistic indeed. So, likely to be a good result all round then!Schools Week LIVE @SchoolsWeekLive 50s50 seconds ago
BREAKING: Re-elected Jeremy Corbyn announces nationwide campaign against grammar schools starting with day of action Oct 1. Story to follow.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Oh look.
Pointless little right wing troll makes an entrance, takes a dump and then pisses off again.
Shocked etc.
Pointless little right wing troll makes an entrance, takes a dump and then pisses off again.
Shocked etc.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Now, now. Someone who finds themselves compelled to make such a public exhibition of themselves and their anti-social obsessions is to be pitied rather than censured, surely.RogerOThornhill wrote:Oh look.
Pointless little right wing troll makes an entrance, takes a dump and then pisses off again.
Shocked etc.
I'm getting tired of calming down....
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Brilliant from Mark Steel
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Good job the PLP hasn't wasted several weeks deflecting attention away from the Tory shambles over Europe for absolutely no purpose whatsoever, eh?
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Good for her
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
I've just received an e-mail from Labour South East an extract from which is below -
No time lost there!Dear ,
This morning Jeremy Corbyn was re-elected as leader of the Labour Party. Now we need to get Jeremy elected as Prime Minister in 2020.
We have a unique opportunity to build a political movement that connects with voters right across our country. We need to make sure we continue to grow our membership and use the wealth of talent and knowledge that our members have here in the South East. But to do this need we need your support.
We are not like the Tories who receive millions of pounds from wealthy donors. We’re a grassroots organisation that relies on the generosity of our members and supporters. That’s why I hope you don’t mind me asking you for £10.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
It really doesn't matter. The 2015 result was the important one, and the September 2010 even more so. Far, far too late now. Indeed, ending the show now would have meant less entertainment as a semblance of competence returned.
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
That's an extract from the e-mail, and not an extract from Labour South East. Just to be clear.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
My long standing prediction of 60-40 wasn't far out, then
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Good-afternoon, everyone.
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Wotcha.citizenJA wrote:Good-afternoon, everyone.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
.
Last edited by SpinningHugo on Sat 24 Sep, 2016 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Looking at the numbers, JC did not do as well as I expected. Smith was a crap candidate, and the narrative of betrayal was strong. But still 40% of members voted against.
So what do MPs who want to remove John McDonnell as de facto leader of the Labour party now do?
Same as before. Wait. The most serious candidates, Jarvis and Starmer, need to join the shadow cabinet to gain member credibility. Everyone else holds back.
Wait two years. The incompetence continues, enthusiasm for inevitable defeat wanes. Try again.
So what do MPs who want to remove John McDonnell as de facto leader of the Labour party now do?
Same as before. Wait. The most serious candidates, Jarvis and Starmer, need to join the shadow cabinet to gain member credibility. Everyone else holds back.
Wait two years. The incompetence continues, enthusiasm for inevitable defeat wanes. Try again.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Smith had his failings, but not sure where this knight in shining armour who could have beaten Corbyn actually is?
(and please, please don't suggest one of the Progress tendency)
(and please, please don't suggest one of the Progress tendency)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Jeremy Corbyn has now been elected Labour leader for the second time in two years, and with a bigger majority than before.
So along comes someone who insists there was never any plot or coup to tell us who he thinks the nextanti-democratic coup attempt purely spontaneous and totally unplanned uprising will be led by and the time scale they'll be doing it in.
Laughable.
(edited for typos)
So along comes someone who insists there was never any plot or coup to tell us who he thinks the next
Laughable.
(edited for typos)
I'm getting tired of calming down....
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Too busy, again but
And
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... our-leader
Now: support the elected leader or have the courtesy to keep quiet. The approach of the detractors (in and out of the PLP) in the last year has been a disaster. For everyone.
And
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analy ... our-leader
Now: support the elected leader or have the courtesy to keep quiet. The approach of the detractors (in and out of the PLP) in the last year has been a disaster. For everyone.
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
I imagine AK's got a big grin at the moment.
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Beautiful man, I'd no idea he was 100 years old. I'm not that old but I agree with him.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
He's not actually 100 until December I think?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
You're right.AnatolyKasparov wrote:He's not actually 100 until December I think?
"I am in my 100th year. When I was born in 1916 in Amsterdam, New York, Woodrow Wilson was our president.
They say there is nothing new under the sun. Since I was born, our planet has traveled around it one hundred
times. With each orbit, I’ve watched our country and our world evolve in ways that would have been unimaginable..."
- Kirk Douglas
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the ... b1409749f2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;?
Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Anyway, congratulations to Jeremy Corbyn.
I'm hoping that I'm correct in thinking that, in his post-election speech, I detected more resolve to fight the Government parliamentarily as well as "grassroots-ly". The two approaches are not mutually exclusive and if done in the right way can pay dividends (provided, of course, that the two prongs are singing from the same hymn sheet). I trust that he now recognises that, and acts accordingly.
Edited to add -
But he must get his EU act together!
I'm hoping that I'm correct in thinking that, in his post-election speech, I detected more resolve to fight the Government parliamentarily as well as "grassroots-ly". The two approaches are not mutually exclusive and if done in the right way can pay dividends (provided, of course, that the two prongs are singing from the same hymn sheet). I trust that he now recognises that, and acts accordingly.
Edited to add -
But he must get his EU act together!
Last edited by PorFavor on Sat 24 Sep, 2016 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
A very clear change of mind by the 2015 electorate. Just dwarfed by new members
Members who joined:
Pre May 2015
Smith 63%
Corbyn 37%
Since JC elected
Corbyn 83%
Smith 15%
Members who joined:
Pre May 2015
Smith 63%
Corbyn 37%
Since JC elected
Corbyn 83%
Smith 15%
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Not only him - the entire party doesn't seem to know what its position on Brexit or immigration should be right now.PorFavor wrote:
But he must get his EU act together!
Hopefully we might get some clearer direction over the next few days.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
Hugo a few days ago: (paraphrasing) anything above 40% would be a good result for Smith. Hugo today: I'm surprised Corbyn didn't win by more.
Transparent motives, as ever.
Transparent motives, as ever.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
I notice there's some pointed comments about the empty seats in the conference hall.
Might be because the conference itself doesn't actually begin until tomorrow and delegates didn't think an extra night was worth paying for just to hear a result that they could see on TV anyway.
Might be because the conference itself doesn't actually begin until tomorrow and delegates didn't think an extra night was worth paying for just to hear a result that they could see on TV anyway.
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Re: Saturday 24th & Sunday 25th September 2016
I think above 40% would have been surprisingly good.
Be fair though. JC's triumph is the most astonishing political development in decades. Defying the odds barely covers it. It is jaw dropping.
Be fair though. JC's triumph is the most astonishing political development in decades. Defying the odds barely covers it. It is jaw dropping.