Tuesday 10th January 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Tuesday 10th January 2017
Morning all.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Morning folks,
Chakrabortty on good form in the Graun, about the UK's fractured, disconnected economy.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... gdp-london" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Chakrabortty on good form in the Graun, about the UK's fractured, disconnected economy.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... gdp-london" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Morning
Ouch Hunt won't have enjoyed a glance at the news stand this morning
Ouch Hunt won't have enjoyed a glance at the news stand this morning
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
So, state aid for the steel industry eh?
Hands up if you think full "access" to the single market is compatible with that? Anyone think that some kind of free trade arrangement with the EU might possibly place some teeny weeny restrictions on state aid?
Not that it matters as our new leftwing populist mini-Farage won't be anywhere near power, and so can say any incoherent thing he likes.
I preferred the original to the reboot.
Vote Green.
Hands up if you think full "access" to the single market is compatible with that? Anyone think that some kind of free trade arrangement with the EU might possibly place some teeny weeny restrictions on state aid?
Not that it matters as our new leftwing populist mini-Farage won't be anywhere near power, and so can say any incoherent thing he likes.
I preferred the original to the reboot.
Vote Green.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
From last April
Lisa Rapado, Green candidate for Neath constituency, said , “The Welsh government has had 11 years notice of these job losses, and now it pleads impotence. I call on Carwyn Jones to take action now to prevent future losses. The market will not solve the problem, changing state aid rules will.
Cheap Chinese Steel has been flooding the UK market for some years now. This steel is being sold at a loss, and the EU needs to step in urgently if we are not to lose steel-making capability in Wales.”
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
PaulfromYorkshire wrote:From last AprilLisa Rapado, Green candidate for Neath constituency, said , “The Welsh government has had 11 years notice of these job losses, and now it pleads impotence. I call on Carwyn Jones to take action now to prevent future losses. The market will not solve the problem, changing state aid rules will.
Cheap Chinese Steel has been flooding the UK market for some years now. This steel is being sold at a loss, and the EU needs to step in urgently if we are not to lose steel-making capability in Wales.”
Yes, sadly we can;t regulate the statements of every obscure candidate.
Labour used to have the same problem with obscure leftwing MPs from north London saying ridiculous things. Nobody paid it any attention.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
You know people were saying how it was bad that the MSM weren't focusing on the NHS now that the Tories were on the ropes over the issue.
Well...
The opposition were better when he was on holiday.
Well...
The opposition were better when he was on holiday.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
He who?SpinningHugo wrote:You know people were saying how it was bad that the MSM weren't focusing on the NHS now that the Tories were on the ropes over the issue.
Well...
The opposition were better when he was on holiday.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Or should it just be FTN protocol that whenever SpinningHugo uses a male pronoun, it refers to Jeremy Corbyn?
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Perhaps the poor chap can't even bear to utter "his" name any more
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
A defence of maximum wage caps here (with criticism BTL by me)
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... wages.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wrong but not crazy. Trump-ish populism.
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2014 ... wages.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Wrong but not crazy. Trump-ish populism.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Tim Farron's line that Corbyn has become the "cheerleader" for the Tories is unsurprisingly attracting a few chuckles. Does he think we've all forgotten 2010-15 already?
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
The Green view
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18731.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 18731.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
PLP tongue biting discipline being tested to the limit this morning.
Remember people, he has to own this.
Remember people, he has to own this.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Morning all.
What are your thoughts on the Today interview?
What are your thoughts on the Today interview?
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Morning all.
So the PMs speech yesterday that was billed in advance as being wide-ranging and looking at all aspects of the Big Society....wait...that was the last one...actually turned out to be only on mental health.
The PM’s mental health pledges are not a long-term strategy
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... m-strategy
So the PMs speech yesterday that was billed in advance as being wide-ranging and looking at all aspects of the Big Society....wait...that was the last one...actually turned out to be only on mental health.
The PM’s mental health pledges are not a long-term strategy
https://www.instituteforgovernment.org. ... m-strategy
That went well then...On its own, today’s announcement does not yet add up to a transformation of mental health that we would expect to endure. We haven’t seen a new understanding of the problem, nor a concerted attempt to create a new framework in government (institutions, targets or capacity) for dealing with it. A commitment mechanism is also currently missing, increasing the risk that the agenda disappears from ministerial radars in the future.
All of this may come. But it will require months if not years of prime ministerial engagement to set up. Superficial change can be achieved quickly. If the Prime Minister thinks that a ‘transformation’ of mental health is warranted, it will take more than one speech and a handful of policy announcements.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Good-morning, everyone.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
I'm not voting Green, it'll get get us nowhere.SpinningHugo wrote:So, state aid for the steel industry eh?
Hands up if you think full "access" to the single market is compatible with that? Anyone think that some kind of free trade arrangement with the EU might possibly place some teeny weeny restrictions on state aid?
Not that it matters as our new leftwing populist mini-Farage won't be anywhere near power, and so can say any incoherent thing he likes.
I preferred the original to the reboot.
Vote Green.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... nao-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Plans to close scores of tax offices unrealistic, says spending watchdog
Plans to close scores of tax offices unrealistic, says spending watchdog
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
citizenJA wrote:I'm not voting Green, it'll get get us nowhere.SpinningHugo wrote:So, state aid for the steel industry eh?
Hands up if you think full "access" to the single market is compatible with that? Anyone think that some kind of free trade arrangement with the EU might possibly place some teeny weeny restrictions on state aid?
Not that it matters as our new leftwing populist mini-Farage won't be anywhere near power, and so can say any incoherent thing he likes.
I preferred the original to the reboot.
Vote Green.
Given that there is no prospect of any party other than the Tories being in power, why not vote for principle?
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
I see Tory MPs are gunning for the new HMCI already...
Grammar schools are a 'distraction', says new chief inspector of schools
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/20 ... or-schools
Grammar schools are a 'distraction', says new chief inspector of schools
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/20 ... or-schools
Dimwits like him need to learn the difference between a civil servant like David carter and Crown appointees like Amanda Spielman...Andrew Brigden MP, said: “Once again we are seeing the civil service displaying their ideological beliefs. At the end of the day they are there to implement government policy impartially. It is unproductive of them to dispose their own ideological beliefs”.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Government plans 'threaten children's legal rights built up over decades'
Magistrates’ Association warns children and social work bill could make court orders protecting vulnerable children ‘unenforceable’
Government plans 'threaten children's legal rights built up over decades'
Magistrates’ Association warns children and social work bill could make court orders protecting vulnerable children ‘unenforceable’
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
I don't dig this at all. Ending free movement is a devastating end to decades of everything best about the UK being in the EU.Corbyn on Brexit: UK can be better off out of the EU
"Jeremy Corbyn will use his first speech of 2017 to claim that Britain can be better off outside the EU and insist
that the Labour party has no principled objection to ending the free movement of European workers in the UK."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -migration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You know what will happen, of course. The wealthy go where they will, the regulars see an effective end to their right to go
anywhere. Don't give me any of that 'get a visa' crap. It'll stop people going places. Opportunities gone.
The following is my own idea and I'm not suggesting Corbyn wants this for the UK. I'll share my thoughts.
You all know a little about me - a pagan, Jesus-loving, communist (not a comprehensive list). I'd love to give the Cuba model
of communal work and study for all the people living together on an embargoed, relatively small land mass a go. There's a kind
of perfect beauty for the UK, a formerly successful colonising nation, retiring from the world stage into calm, sustenance
living. I gotta suspicion it's not what others want and I probably don't really want it either.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Don't be silly, Tories will hold with their use of force, nothing more. It'll break them. I'm voting for principle by voting Labour.SpinningHugo wrote:Given that there is no prospect of any party other than the Tories being in power, why not vote for principle?citizenJA wrote:I'm not voting Green, it'll get get us nowhere.SpinningHugo wrote:So, state aid for the steel industry eh?
Hands up if you think full "access" to the single market is compatible with that? Anyone think that some kind of free trade arrangement with the EU might possibly place some teeny weeny restrictions on state aid?
Not that it matters as our new leftwing populist mini-Farage won't be anywhere near power, and so can say any incoherent thing he likes.
I preferred the original to the reboot.
Vote Green.
I disagree with ending freedom of movement. It's not the beginning and end of my relationship with the Labour party.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
ONS on inequality
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ending2016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Interesting on claim that inequality inexorably increasing.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... ending2016" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Interesting on claim that inequality inexorably increasing.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Are you? Why do you want to end freedom of movement? Don't you want to stay in the single market? Why do you want to make us poorer by doing these things, so that we can't afford better social care and so on?citizenJA wrote:Don't be silly, Tories will hold with their use of force, nothing more. It'll break them. I'm voting for principle by voting Labour.SpinningHugo wrote:Given that there is no prospect of any party other than the Tories being in power, why not vote for principle?citizenJA wrote:I'm not voting Green, it'll get get us nowhere.
I disagree with ending freedom of movement. It's not the beginning and end of my relationship with the Labour party.
These things are interrelated.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Remove the Swedish Derogation abuse, ditto abuses like advertising abroad first and potentially uniquely, abuses like a requirement to speak Polish etc.citizenJA wrote:I don't dig this at all. Ending free movement is a devastating end to decades of everything best about the UK being in the EU.Corbyn on Brexit: UK can be better off out of the EU
"Jeremy Corbyn will use his first speech of 2017 to claim that Britain can be better off outside the EU and insist
that the Labour party has no principled objection to ending the free movement of European workers in the UK."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -migration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You know what will happen, of course. The wealthy go where they will, the regulars see an effective end to their right to go
anywhere. Don't give me any of that 'get a visa' crap. It'll stop people going places. Opportunities gone.
The following is my own idea and I'm not suggesting Corbyn wants this for the UK. I'll share my thoughts.
You all know a little about me - a pagan, Jesus-loving, communist (not a comprehensive list). I'd love to give the Cuba model
of communal work and study for all the people living together on an embargoed, relatively small land mass a go. There's a kind
of perfect beauty for the UK, a formerly successful colonising nation, retiring from the world stage into calm, sustenance
living. I gotta suspicion it's not what others want and I probably don't really want it either.
IMHO what's been mentioned isn't a million miles away from what Miliband was saying pre GE?
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Our neighbourhood has had escalating difficulty with an increasingly violent neighbour. Mr citizen and I aren't the target of this person's ire,
it's general lawless disturbance. We've not been sleeping well but hopefully the situation will be resolved soon.
it's general lawless disturbance. We've not been sleeping well but hopefully the situation will be resolved soon.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
The search for a sentence that makes any logical sense continues.A skill of sorts.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
I know. Be patient with me, please.HindleA wrote:The search for a sentence that makes any logical sense continues.A skill of sorts.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
CJA sorry to hear that,puts my lawnmowing tortoise with anger management problems into perspective.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Cja-not you of course.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
There is a time delay in my responses.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
These international acts Tory government are committing the UK to can't be switched off when Tories are voted out next time.StephenDolan wrote:Remove the Swedish Derogation abuse, ditto abuses like advertising abroad first and potentially uniquely, abuses like a requirement to speak Polish etc.citizenJA wrote:I don't dig this at all. Ending free movement is a devastating end to decades of everything best about the UK being in the EU.Corbyn on Brexit: UK can be better off out of the EU
"Jeremy Corbyn will use his first speech of 2017 to claim that Britain can be better off outside the EU and insist
that the Labour party has no principled objection to ending the free movement of European workers in the UK."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -migration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You know what will happen, of course. The wealthy go where they will, the regulars see an effective end to their right to go
anywhere. Don't give me any of that 'get a visa' crap. It'll stop people going places. Opportunities gone.
The following is my own idea and I'm not suggesting Corbyn wants this for the UK. I'll share my thoughts.
You all know a little about me - a pagan, Jesus-loving, communist (not a comprehensive list). I'd love to give the Cuba model
of communal work and study for all the people living together on an embargoed, relatively small land mass a go. There's a kind
of perfect beauty for the UK, a formerly successful colonising nation, retiring from the world stage into calm, sustenance
living. I gotta suspicion it's not what others want and I probably don't really want it either.
IMHO what's been mentioned isn't a million miles away from what Miliband was saying pre GE?
We've got a Tory government now, not Miliband's Labour. Never leave the EU with Tories in government.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
We all have our crosses to bear. Some might be heavier than others but it's a tough hike for us all.HindleA wrote:CJA sorry to hear that,puts my lawnmowing tortoise with anger management problems into perspective.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Copy that. Over.HindleA wrote:There is a time delay in my responses.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Perhaps not, but which other party is speaking up for the 48% who voted against Brexit (hard, soft or multicolour)?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:
Tim Farron's line that Corbyn has become the "cheerleader" for the Tories is unsurprisingly attracting a few chuckles. Does he think we've all forgotten 2010-15 already?
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Important to emphasise that this car crash is not just supported by the current leadership
http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2017/0 ... rs-future/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.progressonline.org.uk/2017/0 ... rs-future/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
The majority voted to do exactly that. The terms are where the battles lie. I'm not enamoured about the former, but it happened.citizenJA wrote:These international acts Tory government are committing the UK to can't be switched off when Tories are voted out next time.StephenDolan wrote:Remove the Swedish Derogation abuse, ditto abuses like advertising abroad first and potentially uniquely, abuses like a requirement to speak Polish etc.citizenJA wrote: I don't dig this at all. Ending free movement is a devastating end to decades of everything best about the UK being in the EU.
You know what will happen, of course. The wealthy go where they will, the regulars see an effective end to their right to go
anywhere. Don't give me any of that 'get a visa' crap. It'll stop people going places. Opportunities gone.
The following is my own idea and I'm not suggesting Corbyn wants this for the UK. I'll share my thoughts.
You all know a little about me - a pagan, Jesus-loving, communist (not a comprehensive list). I'd love to give the Cuba model
of communal work and study for all the people living together on an embargoed, relatively small land mass a go. There's a kind
of perfect beauty for the UK, a formerly successful colonising nation, retiring from the world stage into calm, sustenance
living. I gotta suspicion it's not what others want and I probably don't really want it either.
IMHO what's been mentioned isn't a million miles away from what Miliband was saying pre GE?
We've got a Tory government now, not Miliband's Labour. Never leave the EU with Tories in government.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Don't claim I want something I've made clear I don't. I'll not respond to another not communicating in good faith.SpinningHugo wrote:Are you? Why do you want to end freedom of movement? Don't you want to stay in the single market? Why do you want to make us poorer by doing these things, so that we can't afford better social care and so on?citizenJA wrote: Don't be silly, Tories will hold with their use of force, nothing more. It'll break them. I'm voting for principle by voting Labour.
I disagree with ending freedom of movement. It's not the beginning and end of my relationship with the Labour party.
These things are interrelated.
I don't want an end to freedom of movement, not poorer, not out of the single market, no 'Brexit'. The UK has all
the resources it needs to fund UK infrastructure. It's Tory government making the choice not to fund them.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
StephenDolan wrote:Remove the Swedish Derogation abuse, ditto abuses like advertising abroad first and potentially uniquely, abuses like a requirement to speak Polish etc.citizenJA wrote:I don't dig this at all. Ending free movement is a devastating end to decades of everything best about the UK being in the EU.Corbyn on Brexit: UK can be better off out of the EU
"Jeremy Corbyn will use his first speech of 2017 to claim that Britain can be better off outside the EU and insist
that the Labour party has no principled objection to ending the free movement of European workers in the UK."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... -migration" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You know what will happen, of course. The wealthy go where they will, the regulars see an effective end to their right to go
anywhere. Don't give me any of that 'get a visa' crap. It'll stop people going places. Opportunities gone.
The following is my own idea and I'm not suggesting Corbyn wants this for the UK. I'll share my thoughts.
You all know a little about me - a pagan, Jesus-loving, communist (not a comprehensive list). I'd love to give the Cuba model
of communal work and study for all the people living together on an embargoed, relatively small land mass a go. There's a kind
of perfect beauty for the UK, a formerly successful colonising nation, retiring from the world stage into calm, sustenance
living. I gotta suspicion it's not what others want and I probably don't really want it either.
IMHO what's been mentioned isn't a million miles away from what Miliband was saying pre GE?
And I see that the speech has this
'But Labour will take action against undercutting of pay and conditions by closing down cheap labour loopholes, banning exclusive advertising of jobs abroad and strengthening workplace protections.'
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Now this is a biggie..
'All firms with a government or council contract over £250,000 will be required to pay tax in the UK and train young people. No company will receive taxpayer-funded contracts if it, or its parent company, is headquartered in a tax haven.'
'All firms with a government or council contract over £250,000 will be required to pay tax in the UK and train young people. No company will receive taxpayer-funded contracts if it, or its parent company, is headquartered in a tax haven.'
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
The citizenship changes contemplated resulting from Tory government's EU referendum results aren't constitutional.StephenDolan wrote:The majority voted to do exactly that. The terms are where the battles lie. I'm not enamoured about the former, but it happened.citizenJA wrote:These international acts Tory government are committing the UK to can't be switched off when Tories are voted out next time.StephenDolan wrote:Remove the Swedish Derogation abuse, ditto abuses like advertising abroad first and potentially uniquely, abuses like a requirement to speak Polish etc.
IMHO what's been mentioned isn't a million miles away from what Miliband was saying pre GE?
We've got a Tory government now, not Miliband's Labour. Never leave the EU with Tories in government.
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Quite so. So we could opt to try and stay in the single market, or to try and maintain freedom of movement.StephenDolan wrote: The majority voted to do exactly that. The terms are where the battles lie. I'm not enamoured about the former, but it happened.
But instead the Labour leadership wants to be able to pay the steel industry money, and end both of those things.
Which is fine. I have no problem with the Labour leadership chasing the votes of Brexiters who hate Premier league football. Just gives me another excuse to vote Green.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
I like that.StephenDolan wrote:Now this is a biggie..
'All firms with a government or council contract over £250,000 will be required to pay tax in the UK and train young people. No company will receive taxpayer-funded contracts if it, or its parent company, is headquartered in a tax haven.'
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
That's something that Richard Murphy has been pushing hard for.citizenJA wrote:I like that.StephenDolan wrote:Now this is a biggie..
'All firms with a government or council contract over £250,000 will be required to pay tax in the UK and train young people. No company will receive taxpayer-funded contracts if it, or its parent company, is headquartered in a tax haven.'
Let's hear this aggressively mentioned in interviews please PLP.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Hear! Hear!StephenDolan wrote:That's something that Richard Murphy has been pushing hard for.citizenJA wrote:I like that.StephenDolan wrote:Now this is a biggie..
'All firms with a government or council contract over £250,000 will be required to pay tax in the UK and train young people. No company will receive taxpayer-funded contracts if it, or its parent company, is headquartered in a tax haven.'
Let's hear this aggressively mentioned in interviews please PLP.
Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
T May opens her Tory mouth and the pound hits the floor
No confidence
No confidence
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Of far more import is this nonsense IMHO
Alerted to this on twitter by Roger.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -from-2026" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fifa approves Infantino’s plan to expand World Cup to 48 teams from 2026
Alerted to this on twitter by Roger.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/20 ... -from-2026" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fifa approves Infantino’s plan to expand World Cup to 48 teams from 2026
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Re: Tuesday 10th January 2017
Not least for filling in wall charts purposes,bet they didn't think about such things.