Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -elon-musk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The car is dead, long live the car, thanks to Tesla
John Naughton
The car is dead, long live the car, thanks to Tesla
John Naughton
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... hievements" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Congress adjourns for summer recess with skimpy record for Republicans
After Labor Day conservative lawmakers are likely to forgo more healthcare debate to take up tax reform and two legislative housekeeping musts
Congress adjourns for summer recess with skimpy record for Republicans
After Labor Day conservative lawmakers are likely to forgo more healthcare debate to take up tax reform and two legislative housekeeping musts
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Duly TO'd. Thanks!
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/inde ... businesses" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Press release
Independent review to ensure energy is affordable for households and businesses
Press release
Independent review to ensure energy is affordable for households and businesses
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... om-hackers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
News story
New generation of smart cars will now be better protected from hackers
Principles of cyber security for connected and automated vehicles
News story
New generation of smart cars will now be better protected from hackers
Principles of cyber security for connected and automated vehicles
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Waiting for my invitation to the What to do with the Tories ideas festival,I have a few.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... 7-protests" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In 1967, they watched their city erupt. Fifty years on, how has Detroit changed?
In 1967, they watched their city erupt. Fifty years on, how has Detroit changed?
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
the Sacred Picnic RitualHindleA wrote:Waiting for my invitation to the What to do with the Tories ideas festival,I have a few.
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Good-afternoon, everyone
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Shall we say the changes to the Times subscription basis has not gone down well with the crossword solving community.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
"Never underestimate the power of cruciverbalists"
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
A lot fewer people??HindleA wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... 7-protests
In 1967, they watched their city erupt. Fifty years on, how has Detroit changed?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Guardian crosswords were subscription some years ago,it didn't last long.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... 12m-profit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Trailfinders blames Brexit vote for wiping out £12m profit
Set up by a former SAS guy.
Trailfinders blames Brexit vote for wiping out £12m profit
Set up by a former SAS guy.
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
heh, I had to run 'cruciverbalists' through a translation programHindleA wrote:"Never underestimate the power of cruciverbalists"
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Good Afternoon........HindleA wrote:"Never underestimate the power of cruciverbalists"
How many letters?
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ck-timothy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Matthew D'Ancona "The Tories need fresh ideas"
Matthew D'Ancona "The Tories need fresh ideas"
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
The D'Ancona piece is worth read I'd say.
It feels a bit like an echo from Labour's struggles of the last few years. How can they break away from the Thatcher era while remaining electable? The fear of moving away from the neoliberal consensus.
It feels a bit like an echo from Labour's struggles of the last few years. How can they break away from the Thatcher era while remaining electable? The fear of moving away from the neoliberal consensus.
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
fresh ideas for Tory MPs listed belowPaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ck-timothy
Matthew D'Ancona "The Tories need fresh ideas"
1) join a wholesome political party and work for the benefit of all people and country
2) resign and go away
3) share all their money and property with everyone
4) get jobs as care workers (with the stipulation they're to be shadowed by at least two experienced care workers)
5) ride bicycles, walk and use public transportation only
6) examine their conscience and rectify their errors without expecting a reward for doing so
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Housing is key for the Tories, and Labour.
There is a policy mix that is sensible and attainable, but neither party want to pursue. Labour still seems to favour publicly built housing, which is impossible where need is greatest and distributionally unfair for the unlucky majority who dont benefit. The Tories seem hamstrung by nimbyism.
There is no center ground party that could seriously tackle the problem.
UK politics in one issue.
There is a policy mix that is sensible and attainable, but neither party want to pursue. Labour still seems to favour publicly built housing, which is impossible where need is greatest and distributionally unfair for the unlucky majority who dont benefit. The Tories seem hamstrung by nimbyism.
There is no center ground party that could seriously tackle the problem.
UK politics in one issue.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Indeed!citizenJA wrote:fresh ideas for Tory MPs listed belowPaulfromYorkshire wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ck-timothy
Matthew D'Ancona "The Tories need fresh ideas"
1) join a wholesome political party and work for the benefit of all people and country
2) resign and go away
3) share all their money and property with everyone
4) get jobs as care workers (with the stipulation they're to be shadowed by at least two experienced care workers)
5) ride bicycles, walk and use public transportation only
6) examine their conscience and rectify their errors without expecting a reward for doing so
There may however be a place for a conservative party. D'Ancona mentions the idea of taxing wealth instead of income. I think this is probably long overdue, but it's very hard for Labor to actually do it. We were discussing this a few weeks back. There are some things that the apparently more unlikely party is able to progress.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Taxing wealth would help wouldn't it? And if you hypothecated those tax receipts for new public housing it might seem rather acceptable to many folk?SpinningHugo wrote:Housing is key for the Tories, and Labour.
There is a policy mix that is sensible and attainable, but neither party want to pursue. Labour still seems to favour publicly built housing, which is impossible where need is greatest and distributionally unfair for the unlucky majority who dont benefit. The Tories seem hamstrung by nimbyism.
There is no center ground party that could seriously tackle the problem.
UK politics in one issue.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Health service reform is another "only Nixon can go to China" issue. Only Labour could actually reform any area of the NHS, the Tories aren't trusted.
Not that Labour as now led has anything other than 1970s answers.
Not that Labour as now led has anything other than 1970s answers.
Last edited by SpinningHugo on Sun 06 Aug, 2017 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
In the 1970's the State recognised that the fundumentally shift of decarceration and treatment in community/at home had to be accounted for.Many of today's issues stem from historical amnesia and the regression of both thought and practice from that.
Edited rogue k removal.
Edited rogue k removal.
Last edited by HindleA on Sun 06 Aug, 2017 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
IE cost/burden rather than investment.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Not particulary a party thing,shall we say the agreed consensus went awry,Labour showing signs of retrieval.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
A third of receivers of social care are non pensioners.In own home is fundamentally different to in a home and serves totally different purposes;retention of work,carers breaks,facillitates otherwise hospital treatments,a personal assistant for driving purposes for shopping,appointments,independence,choice eg.rather than going to a day centre 50 weeks a year because otherwise you won't meet people,regardless of applicabilty,maybe you don't want to be segregated,you organise a break for yourself and p.a.somewhere which makes the Torygraph go apoplectic with rage at the sheer cost saving and non conformity to not being pathetic creatures to be patronised.The scandal of it.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Hence I am extremely uneasy at the generational fairness line,but I don't like the continual "comparative fairness"in general.It led to justifying a default position on necessary rooms as being chargeable.
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
myth of scarcity combined with divisive lingoHindleA wrote:Hence I am extremely uneasy at the generational fairness line,but I don't like the continual "comparative fairness"in general.It led to justifying a default position on necessary rooms as being chargeable.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
I would argue in own home facillitation is a cost saving investment.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
It is quite difficult to ascertain the best way to charge,because of possible consequences eg.if on weekly income alone it may penalise those in work/work possibility,given it facillitates by its provision to then increase/adjust to the situation is not sensible,hence why it is not counted at all in calculations.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Which may lead to "perceived unfairness" of being charged the same but better off.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
If the last few years have demonstrated anything, it is that in many cases "1970s answers" have more to be said for them than the conventional wisdom since then has assumed.SpinningHugo wrote:Health service reform is another "only Nixon can go to China" issue. Only Labour could actually reform any area of the NHS, the Tories aren't trusted.
Not that Labour as now led has anything other than 1970s answers.
Though I think it is an unfair assessment anyway, this years Labour manifesto was the first in our lifetimes to even float the idea of land taxation - potentially HUGE.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Lack of a commitment to consensus politics is the problem, to my mind, not the lack of a centrist party.HindleA wrote:Not particulary a party thing,shall we say the agreed consensus went awry,Labour showing signs of retrieval.
Providing quality, cost effective social care for all shouldn't be a politically contentious aim. Although there are different ways to go about it, you would expect a consensus on the basic idea of providing it. And from there a willingness to come to a cross party agreement on long term changes.
When you have one party that believes the state should do virtually nothing and another party that believes the state should do virtually everything, there is little likelihood of consensus. Because the argument isn't over "how" an aim should be achieved, it's over whether the aim should even be pursued at all.
Democracy evolved as a way to settle relatively small differences in approach among people of relatively homogeneous cultural identity and outlook. The concept of consensus politics recognises this limitation of democracy and understands the need to win broad agreement on major issues through persuasive argument.
A social care plan, whatever it may be, needs to address the potential needs of most people and to address the needs of society as a whole. And the whole of parliament needs to be committed to this as a broad concept.
It is my opinion that it is not the Tories' approach, with their obsession with inefficient privatisation, that is the real problem. The real problem is they seem no longer interested in providing social care at all. The broad consensus on what the state should and shouldn't do has broken down. I'm really not sure what the solution to this is. All I know is that political polarisation entrenches a culture of "winners" and "losers" at the expense of the idea of collaborative effort bringing universal rewards.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Cameron and Osborne's small state extremism has been really quite severe. And mostly pursued without the informed consent of the electorate. Their disdain for democracy was quite appalling. May in comparison just seems hapless. Not that that makes her much better.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
By which I mean, devolving responsibility for provision of certain public services to local councils without devolving the necessary money to provide them. In effect it is withdrawal of state provision, but bypasses parliamentary approval for that withdrawal.
The privatisations of the 80's and the TV campaigns to galvanise public support for them seem almost honest by comparison.
The privatisations of the 80's and the TV campaigns to galvanise public support for them seem almost honest by comparison.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Network Rail is pretty 1970s. Fully nationalized, strong unions, borrowed tons of money in the old fashioned way- but hardly looks like a success.AnatolyKasparov wrote:If the last few years have demonstrated anything, it is that in many cases "1970s answers" have more to be said for them than the conventional wisdom since then has assumed.SpinningHugo wrote:Health service reform is another "only Nixon can go to China" issue. Only Labour could actually reform any area of the NHS, the Tories aren't trusted.
Not that Labour as now led has anything other than 1970s answers.
Though I think it is an unfair assessment anyway, this years Labour manifesto was the first in our lifetimes to even float the idea of land taxation - potentially HUGE.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
I think the increase to £100,000 for in a home situation coupled with equalising for in own home(despite cost savng/independent enhancing advantages)rather speaks to their thinking/priorities.Consistent, they exempted rooms for care,for non resident overwhelmingly paid workers but not for residents doing exactly the same.Pretty clear to me,even in symbolic terms it is a continual kick in the nether regions for the targeted.
Last edited by HindleA on Sun 06 Aug, 2017 7:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
The killer, I think, was the council tax limit imposed by Pickles. It's hard for Labour to run on people paying more council tax- Corbyn's "brave" manifesto hid behind the fiction that "business" would be paying for the extra stuff- but in some areas they could have run on small increases to mitigate stuff. They did in Wales, and didn't seem to pay too much of a price.Willow904 wrote:By which I mean, devolving responsibility for provision of certain public services to local councils without devolving the necessary money to provide them. In effect it is withdrawal of state provision, but bypasses parliamentary approval for that withdrawal.
The privatisations of the 80's and the TV campaigns to galvanise public support for them seem almost honest by comparison.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
@Willow,I would merely say,it depends on "the consensus"for me.Certainly,I am not enamoured by the framing of the general debate by politicos.
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
30-40% of the population seem to agree with that.Willow904 wrote: It is my opinion that it is not the Tories' approach, with their obsession with inefficient privatisation, that is the real problem. The real problem is they seem no longer interested in providing social care at all. The broad consensus on what the state should and shouldn't do has broken down. I'm really not sure what the solution to this is.
IMO the solution is electoral reform, so the tories can never have an overall majority to push through their nasty agenda again.
I accept that PR would mean Labour would also be constrained, I can't see any other way.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Nobody's died for a while though.Tubby Isaacs wrote: Network Rail is pretty 1970s. Fully nationalized, strong unions, borrowed tons of money in the old fashioned way- but hardly looks like a success.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Still working on becoming a benign Supreme Leader,not sure if a garden ornament counts as a seconder.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
They've got an excellent safety record, but it's certainly cost. A few other parts of government could have saved a few lives with the money Network Rail's had. Just within transport, a few very dangerous roads could have been improved.gilsey wrote:Nobody's died for a while though.Tubby Isaacs wrote: Network Rail is pretty 1970s. Fully nationalized, strong unions, borrowed tons of money in the old fashioned way- but hardly looks like a success.
Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Aye, there's the rub and why democracy only works when there is a real commitment to make it work in the interests of all.HindleA wrote:@Willow,I would merely say,it depends on "the consensus"for me.Certainly,I am not enamoured by the framing of the general debate by politicos.
And the bigger the polarisation, for instance between the secular and the religious outlooks as we have seen in Turkey, the more the limitations of democracy become apparent.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Well done Langford
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... it-rollout" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... vulnerable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... vulnerable" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Bloody hell.
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
Remember to dip
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Re: Saturday 5th & Sunday 6th August 2017
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Stunning early panorama photos of a lost Alaska
Stunning early panorama photos of a lost Alaska