Tuesday 15th August 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Bloody bad enough they got in,without the reminders.Sadists.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Tubby Isaacs wrote:Hard Brexit makes deepest Labour right austerity look like the teddy bear's picnic.
It may well do but that wasn't the point of my comment though was it!
The point was that the aftermath of the 2007/2008 crash compounded by austerity has led to a real drop in living standards and the quality of life for the poor in the UK - at a time when we were in the EU. This where people were in June 2016, with years of more austerity promised by Osborne in 2015 with massive cuts to services
If the consequences of this policy had been considered by those in politics and the media rather than cheerleading it then perhaps we would not have seen the vote last year
There are no people who voted Leave who post here - not surprising with some of the abuse received by anyone who even tries to discuss how we move on from the vote - so I suggest that this is not a place where solutions will be found as those we need to persuade are absent
From the not unsubstantial number of people I know who voted Leave not many of them have been persuaded by the technical arguments made about the SM and CU, and are not particularly bothered by the economic potential cliff-edge coming when they have not seen a pay rise in years, have seen their personal circumstances deteriorate markedly and have read all the media that is happy to blame it on the EU and immigrants
If Labour had been more vocal in the past about the consequences of austerity (and to be fair Ed M did try) and had challenged the power and vileness of the British press when they had the possibility to do so then we perhaps be in a better place now and would have avoided the EU and immigrants being used as scapegoats for awful Government policies
That time is past now though so we have to think about how we go from here
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
He did, but he was dogged throughout by people in his own party nagging him that Labour had to say sorry for "mismanaging the economy" and "spending too much". And that was even before the Balls pivot towards a more austere economic policy in 2013-14.howsillyofme1 wrote: If Labour had been more vocal in the past about the consequences of austerity (and to be fair Ed M did try) and had challenged the power and vileness of the British press when they had the possibility to do so then we perhaps be in a better place now and would have avoided the EU and immigrants being used as scapegoats for awful Government policies
That time is past now though so we have to think about how we go from here
(culminating in that godawful speech to the 2014 conference, doubtless made partly in the hope it would get praise from VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE. They remained as contemptuous of Labour as ever, whilst party activists were demoralised and UKIP nearly won the Heywood & Middleton byelection on a brazenly opportunistic but effective "stop the cuts" platform)
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
AnatolyKasparov wrote:He did, but he was dogged throughout by people in his own party nagging him that Labour had to say sorry for "mismanaging the economy" and "spending too much". And that was even before the Balls pivot towards a more austere economic policy in 2013-14.howsillyofme1 wrote: If Labour had been more vocal in the past about the consequences of austerity (and to be fair Ed M did try) and had challenged the power and vileness of the British press when they had the possibility to do so then we perhaps be in a better place now and would have avoided the EU and immigrants being used as scapegoats for awful Government policies
That time is past now though so we have to think about how we go from here
(culminating in that godawful speech to the 2014 conference, doubtless made partly in the hope it would get praise from VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE. They remained as contemptuous of Labour as ever, whilst party activists were demoralised and UKIP nearly won the Heywood & Middleton byelection on a brazenly opportunistic but effective "stop the cuts" platform)
I agree AK - Miliband had definitely the capabilities to have been a really fantastic PM but lacked a certain amount of grit - and also he was undermined by those commentators who wanted a continuation of the Blair legacy through his less able, but politically more 'sound', brother
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Leaving in droves...the 4th such resignation from the Manufacturing Council. Trump's reaction after the one the other day typifies the man - small-minded and petty.
Scott Paul
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
the whole world done gone crazy
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
That just isn't true.AnatolyKasparov wrote:He did, but he was dogged throughout by people in his own party nagging him that Labour had to say sorry for "mismanaging the economy" and "spending too much". And that was even before the Balls pivot towards a more austere economic policy in 2013-14.howsillyofme1 wrote: If Labour had been more vocal in the past about the consequences of austerity (and to be fair Ed M did try) and had challenged the power and vileness of the British press when they had the possibility to do so then we perhaps be in a better place now and would have avoided the EU and immigrants being used as scapegoats for awful Government policies
That time is past now though so we have to think about how we go from here
(culminating in that godawful speech to the 2014 conference, doubtless made partly in the hope it would get praise from VERY SERIOUS PEOPLE. They remained as contemptuous of Labour as ever, whilst party activists were demoralised and UKIP nearly won the Heywood & Middleton byelection on a brazenly opportunistic but effective "stop the cuts" platform)
There weren't Labour MPs saying Labour spent too much or mismanaged the economy, certainly not Ed Balls who said no such thing.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Well most of them were speaking (surprise, surprise) on the condition of anonymity. But that it happened is beyond question.
If they didn't exist, then why on earth did Liz Kendall say Labour should aim for a permanent budget surplus in her ill-fated leadership campaign??
You are quite right Balls never said anything as daft as that, and even I have more respect for him than to imagine he would.
That 2014 speech was genuinely hideous and ill-judged though, and should haunt him for the rest of his days. It was a - small - factor in Labour's loss, I have very little doubt.
If they didn't exist, then why on earth did Liz Kendall say Labour should aim for a permanent budget surplus in her ill-fated leadership campaign??
You are quite right Balls never said anything as daft as that, and even I have more respect for him than to imagine he would.
That 2014 speech was genuinely hideous and ill-judged though, and should haunt him for the rest of his days. It was a - small - factor in Labour's loss, I have very little doubt.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
So are you suggesting AK is lying with his premise then Hugo?
I suggest you google it before you accuse someone of not telling the truth and look but here is one example for your personal favourite
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05 ... 81202.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and also I think you will find that Anatoly didn't say what you ascribed to him (a common propaganda trick and a favourite of people like you) about Balls - what he suggested that Balls went for austerity to and his confernce speech in 2014 makes that difficult to contradict....
I suggest you google it before you accuse someone of not telling the truth and look but here is one example for your personal favourite
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/05 ... 81202.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and also I think you will find that Anatoly didn't say what you ascribed to him (a common propaganda trick and a favourite of people like you) about Balls - what he suggested that Balls went for austerity to and his confernce speech in 2014 makes that difficult to contradict....
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
UN Committee on Disability rights first full examinaion on UK next week.Convention signed by A.McGuire in '08,ratified the next year.Should have been earlier but delayed not least by inquiry launch and grave and systematic violations findings.This is more broad.
https://makingrightsmakesense.wordpress ... or-the-uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gov.Response
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... t-response" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/ ... sabilities" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ing-enough" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://makingrightsmakesense.wordpress ... or-the-uk/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gov.Response
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... t-response" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/ ... sabilities" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ing-enough" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by HindleA on Tue 15 Aug, 2017 6:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
http://press.labour.org.uk/post/9813781 ... rty-annual" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Ed Balls was talking tougher than he was. Which you could understand, but annoyed me much more was Lucas, Sturgeon, Wood etc with their "voted for £30bn Tory cuts". It was a shock for me how people on the left could either be so deceitful or so thick.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's Labour finding departmental cuts of 1.4%, or £5.2bn. They could stick a load of investment spending on top of that too.
As for overspending, like any good political jibe, it's got some truth. Simon-Wren Lewis has said that Labour overspent slightly in the few years before the crisis. A Labour MP put on the spot couldn't deny it. Of course, it was nothing like as serious a mistake as the Coalition frontloaded austerity from 2010.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... s-election" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
That's Labour finding departmental cuts of 1.4%, or £5.2bn. They could stick a load of investment spending on top of that too.
As for overspending, like any good political jibe, it's got some truth. Simon-Wren Lewis has said that Labour overspent slightly in the few years before the crisis. A Labour MP put on the spot couldn't deny it. Of course, it was nothing like as serious a mistake as the Coalition frontloaded austerity from 2010.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
The fact that the bloke who resigned the other day was black might have had something to do with Trump's reaction.RogerOThornhill wrote:Leaving in droves...the 4th such resignation from the Manufacturing Council. Trump's reaction after the one the other day typifies the man - small-minded and petty.
Scott Paul
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I'm resigning from the Manufacturing Jobs Initiative because it's the right thing for me to do.
Has he attacked any of the others yet?
Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Well done.Temulkar wrote:So, I was at number 1 in Historical Fiction + No 2 in satire on Amazon free kindle charts over the weekend, beating both Voltaire's Candide and A Tale of Two Cities into 3rd/2nd respectively.
Book 2 is being launched in Oliver Cromwell's House at the end of September if anyone is close to Ely.
http://www.olivercromwellshouse.co.uk/i ... ll&id=2650" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
We cannot revisit the 2015 election - that is past and the people who were there are long gone - fortunately, I hope Miliband (who has stuck around) will be there to rise again at some point in a senior position within the party
The point being made was that if Labour had been more vocally anti-austerity and ensured that the blame for people's problems were due to lack of regulation of the global financial sector (which Labour do have some responsibility for) and the austerity of the Coalition - nothing to do with the EU or immigrants (although Labour fell for that one too).
There should have been no Labour leadership candidate saying that Labour over-spent (what Wren-Lewis says is just his opinion) which played straight into the Tory's hands and none should have blamed immigration for austerity
The point being made was that if Labour had been more vocally anti-austerity and ensured that the blame for people's problems were due to lack of regulation of the global financial sector (which Labour do have some responsibility for) and the austerity of the Coalition - nothing to do with the EU or immigrants (although Labour fell for that one too).
There should have been no Labour leadership candidate saying that Labour over-spent (what Wren-Lewis says is just his opinion) which played straight into the Tory's hands and none should have blamed immigration for austerity
Last edited by howsillyofme1 on Tue 15 Aug, 2017 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Ah, I see Trump's had a go at the resigners collectively. Lots want to take their place, apparently.
Might not be the smartest bit of brand management to sign up replacing people who resigned over Trump's white nationalism problem.
Might not be the smartest bit of brand management to sign up replacing people who resigned over Trump's white nationalism problem.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Again, your memory is failing you. Kendall said no such thing, at least in every quote I can find on Google.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well most of them were speaking (surprise, surprise) on the condition of anonymity. But that it happened is beyond question.
If they didn't exist, then why on earth did Liz Kendall say Labour should aim for a permanent budget surplus in her ill-fated leadership campaign??
You are quite right Balls never said anything as daft as that, and even I have more respect for him than to imagine he would.
That 2014 speech was genuinely hideous and ill-judged though, and should haunt him for the rest of his days. It was a - small - factor in Labour's loss, I have very little doubt.
I often feel youvrepeatvthings that you think ought to be true.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
you claimed that no Labour MP said the party over-spent - do you still stand by that?
Perhaps an apology to AK for accusing him of 'That just isn't true'....
On the Liz Kendall quote - there are plenty where it could be interpreted she is saying that - whether Anatoly's interpretation is right or not depends on how you read it - but it was clear to me she was decrying the Labour policies from pre-2010
Perhaps an apology to AK for accusing him of 'That just isn't true'....
On the Liz Kendall quote - there are plenty where it could be interpreted she is saying that - whether Anatoly's interpretation is right or not depends on how you read it - but it was clear to me she was decrying the Labour policies from pre-2010
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Decade old bipartisan policy of prioritizing investment in rail rather than subsidizing fares, plus inflation rising.Caroline LucasVerified account @CarolineLucas 9h
Genuinely struggling to grasp how Grayling thinks rail fare increase is justified - couldn't be more out of touch if he tried
Maybe reaching its political limit now, so not surprising she has a pop.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
That Mail story about 'elf 'n' safety reasons being to blame for silencing Big Ben for 4 years?
That's the former director of the Parliamentary Archives...Caroline Shenton @dustshoveller 2h2 hours ago
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Caroline Shenton Retweeted Tom Moseley
I've been in the belfry at midday and the noise is not just eardrum bashing, it vibrates you to your fillings. You have NO idea.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
http://press.labour.org.uk/post/1642089 ... on-tour-as" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
If they were that bothered they would organise some sort of rota among staff and provide a replacement "bong" system,or just get Dacre to shout expletives at the appropriate time(s)
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
"This is the ten o'c##t news"
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
"Plenty"howsillyofme1 wrote:you claimed that no Labour MP said the party over-spent - do you still stand by that?
Perhaps an apology to AK for accusing him of 'That just isn't true'....
On the Liz Kendall quote - there are plenty where it could be interpreted she is saying that - whether Anatoly's interpretation is right or not depends on how you read it - but it was clear to me she was decrying the Labour policies from pre-2010
Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Are you sure about that? Are you really, really sure?SpinningHugo wrote:Again, your memory is failing you. Kendall said no such thing, at least in every quote I can find on Google.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well most of them were speaking (surprise, surprise) on the condition of anonymity. But that it happened is beyond question.
If they didn't exist, then why on earth did Liz Kendall say Labour should aim for a permanent budget surplus in her ill-fated leadership campaign??
You are quite right Balls never said anything as daft as that, and even I have more respect for him than to imagine he would.
That 2014 speech was genuinely hideous and ill-judged though, and should haunt him for the rest of his days. It was a - small - factor in Labour's loss, I have very little doubt.
I often feel youvrepeatvthings that you think ought to be true.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
https://www.virgin.com/richard-branson/ ... sic-income" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/ ... m-the-news" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Crossword blog: even clues fail to provide refuge from the news
Crossword blog: even clues fail to provide refuge from the news
Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
gracious
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 95211.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
citizenJA wrote:gracious
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet
Yes it is
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Doing good Naz Shah
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 95211.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
over-100-cross-party-politicians-demand-action-over-muslim-problem-article-in-sun-newspaper
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 95211.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
over-100-cross-party-politicians-demand-action-over-muslim-problem-article-in-sun-newspaper
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
if you look a little harder than you did before and think about potential different interpretations - I know you find this hard with your inflexible mind but what about giving it a trySpinningHugo wrote:"Plenty"howsillyofme1 wrote:you claimed that no Labour MP said the party over-spent - do you still stand by that?
Perhaps an apology to AK for accusing him of 'That just isn't true'....
On the Liz Kendall quote - there are plenty where it could be interpreted she is saying that - whether Anatoly's interpretation is right or not depends on how you read it - but it was clear to me she was decrying the Labour policies from pre-2010
Oh, and I do not intend to be side-tracked onto a subject that was only mentioned in passing - this is all old news now and Kendall, thankfully, is no longer a relevance in the party - alongside her pal Leslie
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Oh there's always some moaning minnies saying daylight is shortening. Be patriotic and do your duty!HindleA wrote:citizenJA wrote:gracious
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet
Yes it is
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
A bit unfair Paul, you living in Huddersfield will be pretty much unaware that the sun exists - some others may have the good fortune to see it occasionallyPaulfromYorkshire wrote:Oh there's always some moaning minnies saying daylight is shortening. Be patriotic and do your duty!HindleA wrote:citizenJA wrote:gracious
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet
Yes it is
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Or Merseyside.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
I am sure it is lighter slightly longer here for the time of year,always with the I may be on a different planet caveat.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
returning from holiday to the joy of 50 shades of Brexit.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 93216.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Government refusing to publish 50 'secret' studies on Brexit impact
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 93216.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Government refusing to publish 50 'secret' studies on Brexit impact
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
She had ideas about care,to be fair,an area where knowledge is generally atrocious,Keeley still there at Shadow Minister level plugging away,rarely mentioned but more effective/influential than credited for.No idea where she sits in the good/bad/indifferent traitor or not/to be cleansed scale.Not what I particularly look for.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Congrats Tem,that's great news.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
In other breaking news:
I did quite well at the old karaoke at the weekend (though not above Voltaire's Candide)
I did quite well at the old karaoke at the weekend (though not above Voltaire's Candide)
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
howsillyofme1 wrote:A bit unfair Paul, you living in Huddersfield will be pretty much unaware that the sun exists - some others may have the good fortune to see it occasionallyPaulfromYorkshire wrote:Oh there's always some moaning minnies saying daylight is shortening. Be patriotic and do your duty!HindleA wrote:
Yes it is
That smog act did good HOSM and we do see it occasionally
Interesting to look back at that and see a Tory MP sponsoring legislation for the public good.
How times change....
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Keith Joseph sponsored the introduction of the precursor of Carers Allowance,admittedly a more restricted version originally.Osborne wanted to abolish it as a stand alone via UC.
Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Brusk?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Oh there's always some moaning minnies saying daylight is shortening. Be patriotic and do your duty!HindleA wrote:citizenJA wrote:gracious
probably off-topic but I notice the day is drawing in
it's not even 8.30 yet
Yes it is
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
No it's BpadydPorFavor wrote:Brusk?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Oh there's always some moaning minnies saying daylight is shortening. Be patriotic and do your duty!HindleA wrote:
Yes it is
Not quite as catchy admittedly
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
In tandem.rather than under UC clarification ie.make it means tested.
"Simplify"
"Simplify"
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Waiting for clanger singing karoake style pictures.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Think I am becoming addicted to strawberries and ice cream,maybe I should vary my diet more.
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
Warning: Express
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/841588 ... brexiteers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/841588 ... brexiteers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
no inane peddling of platitudes whatsoeverBut Elizabeth said there was nothing wrong with wanting the country to be great again and laid into the Tories as she accused the Conservative party of not fulfilling the will of the people.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
http://thehill.com/homenews/news/346675 ... ottesville" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 15th August 2017
https://www.texastribune.org/2017/08/15 ... 1502819005" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Abbott signs bill restricting insurance coverage of abortion
(Texas)
Abbott signs bill restricting insurance coverage of abortion
(Texas)