Thursday 5th October 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Johnson A has always been a bit of a media favourite, so should have found it easier to get coverage than most.
He didn't because in addition to his well known laziness*, when he did make an appearance he had little memorable to say.
(*despite this, I always quite liked him - its hard not to - but the referendum will not go down as his finest hour)
He didn't because in addition to his well known laziness*, when he did make an appearance he had little memorable to say.
(*despite this, I always quite liked him - its hard not to - but the referendum will not go down as his finest hour)
Last edited by AnatolyKasparov on Thu 05 Oct, 2017 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
That's just the way it is. Some things will never change.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(look at the first comment as well!)
Be good to yourself. Don't watch it.
#cleansince2011
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
(look at the first comment as well!)
Be good to yourself. Don't watch it.
#cleansince2011
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2017/oc ... ter-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK's new supreme court chief calls for clarity on ECJ after Brexit
President of UK’s highest court, Brenda Hale, says judges need to know how far they should take into account future judgments from EU court
UK's new supreme court chief calls for clarity on ECJ after Brexit
President of UK’s highest court, Brenda Hale, says judges need to know how far they should take into account future judgments from EU court
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
See below
Last edited by HindleA on Thu 05 Oct, 2017 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
[youtube]GlRQjzltaMQ[/youtube]
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
I apologise for suggesting hate was involved. You haven't responded to what I actually had to say.SpinningHugo wrote:I don't hate anybody, certainly not Corbyn.
I think he is awful, and will do a great deal further damage to the UK, but he is in good faith, as is May. Hard to hate.
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Quick Draw McGraw strikes again . . .
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Your video linking skills are commendable PFPorFavor wrote:Quick Draw McGraw strikes again . . .
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Thank you - but HindleA still pipped me to the post. He very magnanimously withdrewPaulfromYorkshire wrote:Your video linking skills are commendable PFPorFavor wrote:Quick Draw McGraw strikes again . . .
his link, though. (He was the Quick Draw McGraw!)
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Shame I still don't seem to manage ordinary posts without cocking them up!
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
We can probably all do ourselves a favour by dropping "Venezuela". If what we mean by "Venezuela" is "stagflation" or something, let's say that.
As I understand it, the Bank's independence makes that much less likely. But if McDonnell came into conflict with the Bank, that could be pretty bad for the economy.
As I understand it, the Bank's independence makes that much less likely. But if McDonnell came into conflict with the Bank, that could be pretty bad for the economy.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
adam wrote:I apologise for suggesting hate was involved. You haven't responded to what I actually had to say.SpinningHugo wrote:I don't hate anybody, certainly not Corbyn.
I think he is awful, and will do a great deal further damage to the UK, but he is in good faith, as is May. Hard to hate.
Well, I wouldn;t claim that a more dynamic Corbyn would have made the difference, or indeed was possible. He (and McDonnell and Milne) are longstanding opponents of the EU. It is not really reasonable to expect them to campaign with any vigour for Remain, and they didn't. But even if they had campaigned in the way they did in, say, 2017, it would not have altered anything.
Far more damaging I think has been the adoption by Corbyn, McDonnell and Milne of the "slightly more Remain-y" than the Tories strategy. Electorally this has been a triumph: Remainers in 2017 had nowhere else to go and Leave voter weren't put off. Unfortunately it is wrong, and will leave the poorest much worse off, and prevent all the other good things Labour would seek to do from being achieved.
There was an opportunity for Labour to adopt a principled stand on Brexit and to try and stop a Hard brexit. It hasn't done that. Whether you like that depends on whether you just focus on electoral success. So, for many, politics is like supporting Manchester United. Just so long as you win, who cares. That is however wrong I think. You should focus on the end result and not on party. The end result is disastrous, especially for the constituency Labour is supposed to represent.
Corbyn is primarily responsible for that. So, unlike Wolf, I'd criticise more strongly the appalling track record post-referendum, not the referendum campaign itself.
But then people knew what they were getting when they voted for Corbyn. He has opposed the EU all his life. SO for Corbyn and McDonnell, just as what they say on, say, Nato or nationalisation or the BBC or the Bank of England or Israel or the IRA, it is far more likely that what was said without the constraints of the leadership position is what is actually thought than what is said now.
Last edited by SpinningHugo on Thu 05 Oct, 2017 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... dApp_Tweet" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
I can see why it was thought a good idea to stick somebody else in charge of the referendum campaign, but it didn't work not to have the leader as the main man. I'm sure there were days when Johnson and Corbyn were both doing good stuff. But that's going to be- what?- a minute each on the news?AnatolyKasparov wrote:Johnson A has always been a bit of a media favourite, so should have found it easier to get coverage than most.
He didn't because in addition to his well known laziness*, when he did make an appearance he had little memorable to say.
(*despite this, I always quite liked him - its hard not to - but the referendum will not go down as his finest hour)
There was space for one Labour voice- the leader- to hit factories etc. But even if he had, there was a local campaigning gap where unions didn't seem to be. Can't get 40% for remain in Sunderland, they might as well give up.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
There was also a tactical mistake in sounding too negative in the referendum. Most people open to persuasion by a Labour leader weren't worried about TTIP. That was a Lexit bubble being addressed there, and it never happened anyway.
If you can be like Denmark in the EU, it can't be too bad.
If you can be like Denmark in the EU, it can't be too bad.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... revolution" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
News story
Government plans £80 million smart ticketing rail revolution
News story
Government plans £80 million smart ticketing rail revolution
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
We've done this before though. So I'm not going to dwell too much.
Plenty of big stuff happening now, and it's the Tories fault.
Plenty of big stuff happening now, and it's the Tories fault.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/davi ... ter-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
News story
Davis: Every region must flourish after Brexit
News story
Davis: Every region must flourish after Brexit
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
He can show us the workings then!HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/davi ... ter-brexit
News story
Davis: Every region must flourish after Brexit
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ary-report" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Research and analysis
Impact of the Local Sustainable Transport Fund: summary report
Research and analysis
Impact of the Local Sustainable Transport Fund: summary report
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Won't help the Tory government's credibility regarding Brexit negotiations either domestically or within Europe. They've already wasted a lot of time.According to the Evening Standard, five former cabinet ministers have “joined a plot to force Theresa May to quit”. It says: “A 30-strong group plans to send a delegation to No 10 to ask the Prime Minister to resign before Christmas.”
On the other hand she's turning into a veritable albatross. The sense that something's gotta give is just going to grow.
I don't think we'll see another early election, though. Labour will cry foul, but there's not much they could do. We elect a government, not a Prime Minister.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Yep. I was surprised that the FT reported the UK-rEU agreements as good news.RogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.
It's all going so well...
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US has teamed up with 5 other countries to reject the UK's import proposals for goods such as meat, sugar and grains
I thought straight away that the third parties in the quota agreements would not be happy because their quota to the EU shouldn't be reduced just because the UK leaves. They ought to keep that, have the chance to export more to rEU, and then do a deal with the UK separately. "Deal" looks like a kind word- shakedown looks more like it.
I gather that France doesn't fancy the stuff that's gone to the UK now hitting the EU market, and I don't underestimate the influence of French farmers. But Macron might see bigger fish to be fried.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
I think Ed Vaizey could be among those 30, somehow.Willow904 wrote:Won't help the Tory government's credibility regarding Brexit negotiations either domestically or within Europe. They've already wasted a lot of time.According to the Evening Standard, five former cabinet ministers have “joined a plot to force Theresa May to quit”. It says: “A 30-strong group plans to send a delegation to No 10 to ask the Prime Minister to resign before Christmas.”
On the other hand she's turning into a veritable albatross. The sense that something's gotta give is just going to grow.
I don't think we'll see another early election, though. Labour will cry foul, but there's not much they could do. We elect a government, not a Prime Minister.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
I suppose if they got rid of her and got in Amber Rudd they could then ditch some of May's stupid red lines?Willow904 wrote:Won't help the Tory government's credibility regarding Brexit negotiations either domestically or within Europe. They've already wasted a lot of time.According to the Evening Standard, five former cabinet ministers have “joined a plot to force Theresa May to quit”. It says: “A 30-strong group plans to send a delegation to No 10 to ask the Prime Minister to resign before Christmas.”
On the other hand she's turning into a veritable albatross. The sense that something's gotta give is just going to grow.
I don't think we'll see another early election, though. Labour will cry foul, but there's not much they could do. We elect a government, not a Prime Minister.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Interesting its in the Evening Standard.Tubby Isaacs wrote:I think Ed Vaizey could be among those 30, somehow.Willow904 wrote:Won't help the Tory government's credibility regarding Brexit negotiations either domestically or within Europe. They've already wasted a lot of time.According to the Evening Standard, five former cabinet ministers have “joined a plot to force Theresa May to quit”. It says: “A 30-strong group plans to send a delegation to No 10 to ask the Prime Minister to resign before Christmas.”
On the other hand she's turning into a veritable albatross. The sense that something's gotta give is just going to grow.
I don't think we'll see another early election, though. Labour will cry foul, but there's not much they could do. We elect a government, not a Prime Minister.
I would not trust "Lazy Vaizey" an inch on this or much else.
We should always remember he was and still is an integral member of the Chipping Norton mob and therefore very close to the current editor of that august organ.
This could just be the a crazy (and horrible) thought but could he just be stirring the pot so that ,given the lack of obvious immediate successors and the increasing perception of the need to dispense with May sooner rather than later, the tories may need to widen their search.
With Vaizey and one or two others doing his dirty work George can seem above the fray and await the men in grey suits to plead with him to return
I know the issues surrounding such a move, such as needing to be an MP, but that's easily solved as been proven previously.
I said this is probably crazy and I would welcome anyone (well almost anyone) to disabuse me of this by telling me why it cannot or will not happen!
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
I'd have thought Osborne implausible. Greater than 100/1
The odds are here
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/br ... ive-leader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They should go for Rudd or Hammond. But they might go for Davis as an alternative interim leader I suppose.
BoJo is favourite, but they'd be mad. As for Rees-Mogg...
But Brown went on and on like this for years. He was hopelessly unsuited to the role too, lost his authority quickly, but went on until the next election.
The odds are here
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/br ... ive-leader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They should go for Rudd or Hammond. But they might go for Davis as an alternative interim leader I suppose.
BoJo is favourite, but they'd be mad. As for Rees-Mogg...
But Brown went on and on like this for years. He was hopelessly unsuited to the role too, lost his authority quickly, but went on until the next election.
Last edited by SpinningHugo on Thu 05 Oct, 2017 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
SpinningHugo wrote:I'd have thought Osborne implausible. Greater than 100/1
The odds are here
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/br ... ive-leader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They should go for Rudd or Hammond. But they might go for Davis as an alternative interim leader I suppose.
BoJo is favourite, but they'd be mad. As for Rees-Mogg...
Because the bookies (and pretty much everyone else!) have been so spot on with their forecasts with everything political recently?
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
It doesn't matter what people say in public, Rudd having a majority in the hundreds will be a big minus mark against her. So, for quite a few of the selectorate, will having been a remainer.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Bookies tend to make money, and do also put their money where their mouths are.ScarletGas wrote:SpinningHugo wrote:I'd have thought Osborne implausible. Greater than 100/1
The odds are here
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/br ... ive-leader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They should go for Rudd or Hammond. But they might go for Davis as an alternative interim leader I suppose.
BoJo is favourite, but they'd be mad. As for Rees-Mogg...
Because the bookies (and pretty much everyone else!) have been so spot on with their forecasts with everything political recently?
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
But the (normally) low volume of bets on politics makes the odds there much less reliable.
Some of the quoted prices on the next Labour leader are a bit of a hoot, even if they're not as bad as they were pre-GE.
Some of the quoted prices on the next Labour leader are a bit of a hoot, even if they're not as bad as they were pre-GE.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
SpinningHugo wrote:Bookies tend to make money, and do also put their money where their mouths are.ScarletGas wrote:SpinningHugo wrote:I'd have thought Osborne implausible. Greater than 100/1
The odds are here
https://www.oddschecker.com/politics/br ... ive-leader" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
They should go for Rudd or Hammond. But they might go for Davis as an alternative interim leader I suppose.
BoJo is favourite, but they'd be mad. As for Rees-Mogg...
Because the bookies (and pretty much everyone else!) have been so spot on with their forecasts with everything political recently?
Stating the obvious nothing to disagree with there.
Now address the point.Have the bookies (and pretty much everyone else) been more accurate than not with their forecasts on everything political recently?
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
AnatolyKasparov wrote:But the (normally) low volume of bets on politics makes the odds there much less reliable.
Some of the quoted prices on the next Labour leader are a bit of a hoot, even if they're not as bad as they were pre-GE.
Who do you think is underpriced (ie where is there money to be made)?
Offering odds of say 100/1 on David Miliband is obviously for the suckers.
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Very hard to see how a remainer could lead the tories at the moment, they'd tear themselves apart sooner rather than later, isn't that basically why they're sticking with May? The only semi-plausible alternative I can see is Davis, and on top of his other flaws he's as lazy as A Johnson, as noted above. We're ucked, as we already know.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Someone in another place was suggesting Sajid Javid as the next Tory leader, based on his unwavering support for May at the moment :twistedgilsey wrote:Very hard to see how a remainer could lead the tories at the moment, they'd tear themselves apart sooner rather than later, isn't that basically why they're sticking with May? The only semi-plausible alternative I can see is Davis, and on top of his other flaws he's as lazy as A Johnson, as noted above. We're ucked, as we already know.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Fair point as regards a remainer leading the tories.Just shows what a complete mess they (and us) are in.gilsey wrote:Very hard to see how a remainer could lead the tories at the moment, they'd tear themselves apart sooner rather than later, isn't that basically why they're sticking with May? The only semi-plausible alternative I can see is Davis, and on top of his other flaws he's as lazy as A Johnson, as noted above. We're ucked, as we already know.
As someone elsewhere commented we are now a "Comedy Nation"
For the absence of doubt I take no pleasure in that at all!
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
In other news, peres centristes not doing so well across the Channel
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ng-workers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
macron-accused-of-class-contempt-after-jibe-at-protesting-workers
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ng-workers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
macron-accused-of-class-contempt-after-jibe-at-protesting-workers
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Yes.Tubby Isaacs wrote:We've done this before though. So I'm not going to dwell too much.
Plenty of big stuff happening now, and it's the Tories fault.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Criticized by Melenchon's Kipper party. I think he'll just about survive that.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:In other news, peres centristes not doing so well across the Channel
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... ng-workers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
macron-accused-of-class-contempt-after-jibe-at-protesting-workers
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Brexit: hopelessly trying to buy time while the Article 50 clock is ticking
https://jonworth.eu/brexit-hopelessly-t ... k-ticking/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jon Worth summarises the difficulty.
https://jonworth.eu/brexit-hopelessly-t ... k-ticking/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jon Worth summarises the difficulty.
there is no consensus position on Brexit that actually commands a majority on the Tory+DUP benches, and there is no way that Johnson or Davis or anyone else could conjure one up. Ascribing the current problems to May’s weak leadership misses the point: there is no-one who could actually do any better.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Ed Vaizey actually did some decent work on listing interesting modern buildings.
https://historicengland.org.uk/whats-ne ... ngs-listed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think he was in the right job, and wouldn't want him having any other job, higher or lower.
https://historicengland.org.uk/whats-ne ... ngs-listed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I think he was in the right job, and wouldn't want him having any other job, higher or lower.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Joined up thinking on Brexit.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... y-industry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not convinced there's an alternative army of hospitality workers out there, but the government is suggesting that there might be if a better vocational framework exists. Guess when it's going to be ready?
You probably got "too late for when we leave the EU" right. A point for that. A bonus point for 2022.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... y-industry" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'm not convinced there's an alternative army of hospitality workers out there, but the government is suggesting that there might be if a better vocational framework exists. Guess when it's going to be ready?
You probably got "too late for when we leave the EU" right. A point for that. A bonus point for 2022.
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
A very British dream
https://www.patreon.com/posts/14705378" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On the tories tearing themselves apart. Isn't this the truth, and without even mentioning brexit.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/14705378" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On the tories tearing themselves apart. Isn't this the truth, and without even mentioning brexit.
The likes of Nick Timothy are flailing about, convinced that there are tory policies that would enable them implement May's rhetoric, but it's just words.Problem number one for the Conservatives is that they no longer have any idea how to administer capitalism. No viable long-term growth strategy avails. They can't address the financial sector without hurting their allies in the City. They can't address the crisis of productivity and investment without more state intervention than they're willing to accept. They can't address the housing crisis or the precarious debt-driven economy without harming the interests of home owners. They can't build new support in the rustbelts on an anti-immigrant basis, without sacrificing affluent swing voters and particularly ethnic minority voters in big cities and marginals.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
It's an art form in itself.PorFavor wrote:Shame I still don't seem to manage ordinary posts without cocking them up!
Last edited by tinyclanger2 on Thu 05 Oct, 2017 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Itanartformself.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -practices" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Open consultation
Revised requirements for radiological protection: regulation of public exposures and the justification of practices
Open consultation
Revised requirements for radiological protection: regulation of public exposures and the justification of practices
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Fans of Questor might be surprised to here he's popped up on the Guardian Uber article and blamed.... Ken Livingstone.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
coincidentally brings to mind the same episode of Rake I was on about last week.P45 prankster Simon Brodkin will face no further action, police say
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... e-security" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Who said the following?
Nope. George Galloway.
Shit for brains.
Zac Goldsmith? Nigel Farage? Boris Johnson?“I’m tired of the ‘don’t look back in anger’ approach. I’m very angry and I’m looking forward with a forensic, steely eye. It’s just not enough, especially when you can’t say it very eloquently.
“He’s not exactly Winston Churchill. He doesn’t fill me with any confidence at all that London is safe in his hands, that we will tackle the infestation of terrorist violence that we have in our midst and on our doorstep. I get no confidence from Sadiq Khan, none at all.”
Nope. George Galloway.
Shit for brains.
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Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
Well done the Police for not wasting a load of taxpayers money on this.tinyclanger2 wrote:coincidentally brings to mind the same episode of Rake I was on about last week.P45 prankster Simon Brodkin will face no further action, police say
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... e-security" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Thursday 5th October 2017
I said yesterday it wasn't a crimetinyclanger2 wrote:coincidentally brings to mind the same episode of Rake I was on about last week.P45 prankster Simon Brodkin will face no further action, police say
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... e-security" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;