Friday 13th October 2017
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Friday 13th October 2017
Morning all.
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Good morfternoon.
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
As flagged up by RogerOThornhill last night -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... negotiatorEU withdrawal bill debate postponed as Brexit talks hit buffers
Lack of progress in Brussels negotations and Labour threat to derail legislation mean Commons discussion will not take place next week (Guardian)
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Although it's not Labour "threatening" to derail the legislation that's the problem (it's their job to oppose after all) it's the Tory rebels who also think the bill isn't fit for purpose that is the government's real problem. Though it's easily solved by amending the bill. I said before we would get a clearer picture of May's thinking by how much she was willing to shift to get the bill through. Right now, she's not looking very serious about taking us out of the EU at all.PorFavor wrote:As flagged up by RogerOThornhill last night -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... negotiatorEU withdrawal bill debate postponed as Brexit talks hit buffers
Lack of progress in Brussels negotations and Labour threat to derail legislation mean Commons discussion will not take place next week (Guardian)
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Off the Guardian home page and tucked away at the head of the US Edition section
Trump scraps Obamacare subsidies in surprise late-night announcement
Trump scraps Obamacare subsidies in surprise late-night announcement
So a wide ranging law passed by congress, signed into law by the president and approved under challenge by the Supreme Court is declared unconstitutional by the next president. This is what happens when you put a CEO of a private business in charge - they don't get democracy and the limitations of power.Federal payments underpinning healthcare scheme unlawful, says White House, in move that takes a further swipe at Democrats’ signature reform
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Good morningWillow904 wrote:Although it's not Labour "threatening" to derail the legislation that's the problem (it's their job to oppose after all) it's the Tory rebels who also think the bill isn't fit for purpose that is the government's real problem. Though it's easily solved by amending the bill. I said before we would get a clearer picture of May's thinking by how much she was willing to shift to get the bill through. Right now, she's not looking very serious about taking us out of the EU at all.PorFavor wrote:As flagged up by RogerOThornhill last night -
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... negotiatorEU withdrawal bill debate postponed as Brexit talks hit buffers
Lack of progress in Brussels negotations and Labour threat to derail legislation mean Commons discussion will not take place next week (Guardian)
I cannot agree with that last sentence
She is clueless on how to face the task of taking us out so is floundering and avoiding on a grand scale. If she carries on we will leave on March 30 2019 with no deal no matter how serious she is being or what she actually wants
She should stand aside now to allow someone else try as she has no capability or power to address the problem
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
https://amp.theguardian.com/social-care ... -emergency" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Hello.
Also flagged up by Roger last night, here is the Secret Barrister's response to the appalling JHB.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And here's a response closer to my own:
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Also flagged up by Roger last night, here is the Secret Barrister's response to the appalling JHB.
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And here's a response closer to my own:
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Yes, totally agree. It's as though the latest meme from the die-hard selfharm leave team is to force her to prove them wrong about this.howsillyofme1 wrote:Good morningthe guardian wrote: Right now, she's not looking very serious about taking us out of the EU at all.
I cannot agree with that last sentence
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Further evidence, meanwhile, that another "leading Brexiter" really is actually just plain thick:
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
He has several previous episodes to be taken into consideration hereNonOxCol wrote:Further evidence, meanwhile, that another "leading Brexiter" really is actually just plain thick:
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"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/payment- ... -routledge" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Payment Cards in Adult Social Care: Restrictions on Choice and Control must be Challenged
http://www.in-control.org.uk/news/in-co ... ntrol.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Direct Payments were hard fought for by disabled people. We must be ever vigilant against drifting away from real choice and control. Our investigation and report reveals what can happen when the balance shifts too far towards administrative convenience and over-restrictive management of direct payment"
Payment Cards in Adult Social Care: Restrictions on Choice and Control must be Challenged
http://www.in-control.org.uk/news/in-co ... ntrol.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Direct Payments were hard fought for by disabled people. We must be ever vigilant against drifting away from real choice and control. Our investigation and report reveals what can happen when the balance shifts too far towards administrative convenience and over-restrictive management of direct payment"
Last edited by HindleA on Fri 13 Oct, 2017 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
David Davis faces legal threat over secret reports on Brexit impact
Lawyers say they will issue judicial review proceedings if Brexit secretary fails to release 50 studies of effect on industry
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lawyers say they will issue judicial review proceedings if Brexit secretary fails to release 50 studies of effect on industry
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
https://mainlymacro.blogspot.co.uk/2017 ... in-uk.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The impact of austerity in the UK
Wren-Lewis
The impact of austerity in the UK
Wren-Lewis
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Ian Dunt: first half of tweet makes a fair point which I have some sympathy with (albeit nowhere near enough to ever contemplate changing my vote). Second half is imo completely indisputable for anyone paying attention since 2010, and particularly the last two years.
And guess who wades in, and with what...
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And guess who wades in, and with what...
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;NonOxCol wrote:Hello.
Also flagged up by Roger last night, here is the Secret Barrister's response to the appalling JHB.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And here's a response closer to my own:
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ouch.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
I'm not always a fan of the sometimes seemingly scattergun "legally based" opposition to Brexit, but this one looks like it is worth doing.gilsey wrote:David Davis faces legal threat over secret reports on Brexit impact
Lawyers say they will issue judicial review proceedings if Brexit secretary fails to release 50 studies of effect on industry
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... SApp_Other" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
He can't spell mysogyny.NonOxCol wrote:Ian Dunt: first half of tweet makes a fair point which I have some sympathy with (albeit nowhere near enough to ever contemplate changing my vote). Second half is imo completely indisputable for anyone paying attention since 2010, and particularly the last two years.
And guess who wades in, and with what...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
A useful reminder there that DFH remains as unspeakably bad as ever.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Good-morning, everyone
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
We hadn't forgotten.AnatolyKasparov wrote:A useful reminder there that DFH remains as unspeakably bad as ever.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
BTL in the daily politics today
The Brexiteer Mystery by Sir Arthur Conan T Barbarian
'But Holmes,' said Watson. 'How could this have happened?'
Holmes calmly surveyed the evidence. 'The Board of Trade met in an empty room. The door was locked from the inside. The Board's sole member, a Dr Liam Fox, was present. He was there to discuss Brexit.'
'Yes,' said Watson. 'And yet the most extraordinary thing is that there was still no agreement on what this Brexit business was actually all about. This Fox fellow was found the next day babbling all sorts of nonsense.'
'Indeed,' said Holmes. 'This Brexit affair is beyond a three-pipe problem. I'll need the cocaine,' he added. 'Lots of cocaine.'
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
https://www.juicebrighton.com/news/uk-b ... rebellion/Nuclear industry acts on 'no deal' Brexit as MPs plot Euratom rebellion
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
From what I've read, it really is impossible to remain in Eurotom if we leave the EU because so many elements are integrated with full EU membership.PorFavor wrote:https://www.juicebrighton.com/news/uk-b ... rebellion/Nuclear industry acts on 'no deal' Brexit as MPs plot Euratom rebellion
So really this is something that should have been prepared for and been quite a way along before we triggered article 50.
Hopefully we will be able to remain in Eurotom during a transition period, but it's not really the sort if thing that can be left to chance.
Once again I come back to the fact that Scotland was expected to produce a detailed white paper on how independence could be practically realised before the referendum. We are currently in the middle of leaving the EU and still haven't had any such detailed paper on how it can happen.
It almost seems like Theresa May is baiting MPs to stop her taking us out by throwing unacceptable scenarios at them. I know others favour the incompetent interpretation, but unless she accommodates rebels to get the withdrawal bill through, I still think she's not seriously trying.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
The government's position paper on the implications for nuclear basically saysWillow904 wrote:From what I've read, it really is impossible to remain in Eurotom if we leave the EU because so many elements are integrated with full EU membership.PorFavor wrote:https://www.juicebrighton.com/news/uk-b ... rebellion/Nuclear industry acts on 'no deal' Brexit as MPs plot Euratom rebellion
So really this is something that should have been prepared for and been quite a way along before we triggered article 50.
Hopefully we will be able to remain in Eurotom during a transition period, but it's not really the sort if thing that can be left to chance.
Once again I come back to the fact that Scotland was expected to produce a detailed white paper on how independence could be practically realised before the referendum. We are currently in the middle of leaving the EU and still haven't had any such detailed paper on how it can happen.
It almost seems like Theresa May is baiting MPs to stop her taking us out by throwing unacceptable scenarios at them. I know others favour the incompetent interpretation, but unless she accommodates rebels to get the withdrawal bill through, I still think she's not seriously trying.
1. We don't accept the oversight of the ECJ so we will have to leave the treaty but
2. We will keep all of the benefits provided us by the treaty, just without the oversight and regulation - we'll come up with some other form of oversight instead, and
3. We don't accept that it applies to medical isotopes at all so we won't even mention them once in this paper.
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/10/11/vo ... 42-10-11-/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On who would make the best Prime Minister, both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn score 33%, putting them behind "don't know" on 35%. This is the first time since she took charge of the country that Theresa May has slipped behind don't know.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
(cJA edit)adam wrote:Willow904 wrote:---
The government's position paper on the implications for nuclear basically says
1. We don't accept the oversight of the ECJ so we will have to leave the treaty but
2. We will keep all of the benefits provided us by the treaty, just without the oversight and regulation - we'll come up with some other form of oversight instead, and
3. We don't accept that it applies to medical isotopes at all so we won't even mention them once in this paper.
Impossible demands
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
It's a good statement in microcosm of the government's wider position - we're going to keep what we like and jettison what we don't and that will be fine.citizenJA wrote:(cJA edit)adam wrote:Willow904 wrote:---
The government's position paper on the implications for nuclear basically says
1. We don't accept the oversight of the ECJ so we will have to leave the treaty but
2. We will keep all of the benefits provided us by the treaty, just without the oversight and regulation - we'll come up with some other form of oversight instead, and
3. We don't accept that it applies to medical isotopes at all so we won't even mention them once in this paper.
Impossible demands
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
A reminder that the incumbent has a huge built-in advantage with this question - a "normal" result might be the actual PM leading by 10-15%.Willow904 wrote:https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/10/11/vo ... 42-10-11-/
On who would make the best Prime Minister, both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn score 33%, putting them behind "don't know" on 35%. This is the first time since she took charge of the country that Theresa May has slipped behind don't know.
You can draw your own conclusions about what this poll finding means from that.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
If it was just about Tory government resistance to ECJ oversight I'd be less concerned because we could just change our minds about that, but I think there are genuine barriers to Eurotom membership outside the EU which would challenge even those who are keen to keep it.adam wrote:The government's position paper on the implications for nuclear basically saysWillow904 wrote:
From what I've read, it really is impossible to remain in Eurotom if we leave the EU because so many elements are integrated with full EU membership.
So really this is something that should have been prepared for and been quite a way along before we triggered article 50.
Hopefully we will be able to remain in Eurotom during a transition period, but it's not really the sort if thing that can be left to chance.
Once again I come back to the fact that Scotland was expected to produce a detailed white paper on how independence could be practically realised before the referendum. We are currently in the middle of leaving the EU and still haven't had any such detailed paper on how it can happen.
It almost seems like Theresa May is baiting MPs to stop her taking us out by throwing unacceptable scenarios at them. I know others favour the incompetent interpretation, but unless she accommodates rebels to get the withdrawal bill through, I still think she's not seriously trying.
1. We don't accept the oversight of the ECJ so we will have to leave the treaty but
2. We will keep all of the benefits provided us by the treaty, just without the oversight and regulation - we'll come up with some other form of oversight instead, and
3. We don't accept that it applies to medical isotopes at all so we won't even mention them once in this paper.
I'm not even sure if we could stay in during a transition, though I hope we can, because of the international law consideration. An extension of the article 50 process may be the only way to avert this particular cliff edge. Would the 27 be willing to do that? We're very much at the mercy of the rest of Europe over this. Mind you, the rest of Europe seems more sensitive to the interests of British citizens than our Tory government, so maybe that's not as bad as it sounds!
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
We are eventually going to get to a point with something - and it could be nuclear, or air, or customs - where the EU continue to say 'what you are proposing is impossible, and this is what impossible means'.Willow904 wrote:If it was just about Tory government resistance to ECJ oversight I'd be less concerned because we could just change our minds about that, but I think there are genuine barriers to Eurotom membership outside the EU which would challenge even those who are keen to keep it.
I'm not even sure if we could stay in during a transition, though I hope we can, because of the international law consideration. An extension of the article 50 process may be the only way to avert this particular cliff edge. Would the 27 be willing to do that? We're very much at the mercy of the rest of Europe over this. Mind you, the rest of Europe seems more sensitive to the interests of British citizens than our Tory government, so maybe that's not as bad as it sounds!
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
What I conclude is that the Tories won't be going into another election with Theresa May at the helm. Will they hold out to 2019 or will their hyena instincts get the better of them, though? A leadership challenge during EU Brexit negotiations would be damaging for them. I'd be surprised if they went that far, but she's probably going to be under a lot of pressure to resign, I imagine.AnatolyKasparov wrote:A reminder that the incumbent has a huge built-in advantage with this question - a "normal" result might be the actual PM leading by 10-15%.Willow904 wrote:https://yougov.co.uk/news/2017/10/11/vo ... 42-10-11-/
On who would make the best Prime Minister, both Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn score 33%, putting them behind "don't know" on 35%. This is the first time since she took charge of the country that Theresa May has slipped behind don't know.
You can draw your own conclusions about what this poll finding means from that.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Having had read the comments here and some news, it occurs to me a smart government not wanting rupture with the EU might stand still in a bog making pathetic noises without getting anywhere waiting for the inevitable time most of the population of 28 EU nations (the rest of the world's population too, for that matter) and leaders say, 'Whoa, this Brexit thing just isn't working out, forget the whole thing...'. The stuck-in-a-bog government gets led out of their tough spot with a scolding.
Current Tory government are stuck and pathetic but not smart, compassionate or competent.
I don't know what the hell they're up to, but it's unacceptable.
Willow904's point about international obligations required over Euratom, for example, is correct. It's not something any UK government can get out of without getting the entire country embargoed, locked down and given mandatory counselling sessions.
Current Tory government are stuck and pathetic but not smart, compassionate or competent.
I don't know what the hell they're up to, but it's unacceptable.
Willow904's point about international obligations required over Euratom, for example, is correct. It's not something any UK government can get out of without getting the entire country embargoed, locked down and given mandatory counselling sessions.
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
(cJA edit)adam wrote:---
We are eventually going to get to a point with something - and it could be nuclear, or air, or customs - where the EU continue to say 'what you are proposing is impossible, and this is what impossible means'.
Yes, exactly.
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/w ... -deadline/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Welsh train access fears over 2020 deadline
Welsh train access fears over 2020 deadline
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Mr citizen and I celebrate our wedding anniversary today!
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/9986" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Happy Anniversary.
[youtube]UjuoksjRCPs[/youtube]
[youtube]UjuoksjRCPs[/youtube]
Last edited by HindleA on Fri 13 Oct, 2017 12:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Have a great daycitizenJA wrote:Mr citizen and I celebrate our wedding anniversary today!
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Thank you, everyone!
I love you, people.
I love you, people.
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ts-from-ae" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jeremy Hunt considers barring walk-in patients from A&E
NHS England denies plans to pilot controversial idea, but critics say report reveals depths of crisis facing health service
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;John Rentoul @JohnRentoul
·
6m
Replying to @jamesrbuk and @DavidMills73
To be fair to Corbyn, as I always am, losers from dementia tax were mainly low-income home-owners.
The "dementia tax" discussion on twitter and btl at the G is disheartening, to say the least, for the lack of understanding of what the proposed policy actually is and who it would affect. Good to see John Rentoul gets it and isn't prepared to misrepresent it.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ts-radio-4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by HindleA on Fri 13 Oct, 2017 2:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Absolutely essential thread on a subject closer to my heart than almost any other, one which I think is a significant contributory factor in almost everything I find depressing about this country.
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ts-from-aeJeremy Hunt considers barring walk-in patients from A&E
NHS England denies plans to pilot controversial idea, but critics say report reveals depths of crisis facing health service (Guardian)
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
@Willow904
Whoops - sorry! Missed that.
Whoops - sorry! Missed that.
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
What about if you crawl,hop,somersault in ,wheechairs users etc.?
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Just what is it about these terminal bellends, almost all of whom also happen to be right-wing Brexiters?
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Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Calling an ambulance will be the next thing to be barred unless you've first obtained a docket from your GP.
Re: Friday 13th October 2017
Such pernicious kite flying deserves repeat exposure.PorFavor wrote:@Willow904
Whoops - sorry! Missed that.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb