Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Forum rules
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Morning
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42119571" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK warned of ice as cold snap bites
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42119571" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK warned of ice as cold snap bites
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -providers" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Notice
Letters from Julian Ashby to chairs and chief executives of registered providers of social housing(Updated)
Notice
Letters from Julian Ashby to chairs and chief executives of registered providers of social housing(Updated)
Last edited by HindleA on Sat 25 Nov, 2017 4:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... ey-stage-4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Guidance
Using Ofsted’s IDSR: early years foundation stage profile to key stage 5
Guidance
Using Ofsted’s IDSR: early years foundation stage profile to key stage 5
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/live/rugby-league/41573389" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
RLWorld Cup Tonga England
RLWorld Cup Tonga England
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Whoever wins, they're going to get spanked by Australia.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -mortgages" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Universal credit in new crisis as some claimants are denied mortgages
A standoff between banks and the government means that loan applicants could be rejected if they receive the new payment#
Universal credit in new crisis as some claimants are denied mortgages
A standoff between banks and the government means that loan applicants could be rejected if they receive the new payment#
Last edited by HindleA on Sat 25 Nov, 2017 11:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Good morfternoon.
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Bit chilly in that London then?HindleA wrote:Morning
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42119571" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK warned of ice as cold snap bites
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15798
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Good morning all.
Ashes interesting thus far?
Ashes interesting thus far?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
This isn't looking as easy as advertised . . .Australia knocks UK Brexit trade plan (BBC News website)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42121442
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
gilsey wrote:Bit chilly in that London then?HindleA wrote:Morning
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42119571" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK warned of ice as cold snap bites
It's a bit nippy here, too. But not as bad as the frozen wastes of London.
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
A nice diplomatic approach :PorFavor wrote:This isn't looking as easy as advertised . . .Australia knocks UK Brexit trade plan (BBC News website)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42121442
Usual suspects..Shanker Singham, of The Legatum Institute, said the UK should talk to other countries about trade directly.
He added: "We should be going to them and saying we have the ability - once we take up our chair at the WTO [World Trade Organisation] - to do trade agreements with you that will include a certain amount of liberalisation, depending on what you are prepared to give us.
"But if you damage us on the way to reclaiming our seat on the WTO, we are not going to be able to do those deals with you."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legatum" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Legatum Foundation is a sponsor of the Legatum Institute, an independent non-partisan policy, advisory and advocacy organization based in London. [26] The CEO is Philippa Stroud , a Conservative Peer and
Matthew Elliott (former CEO of Vote Leave) is a Senior Fellow
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
"Legatum Limited" doesn't have quite the same ring to it as "The Legatum Foundation", does it?
Still, good to know that they profit from disasters. Heartwarming.
Still, good to know that they profit from disasters. Heartwarming.
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
https://www.byline.com/column/78/article/1951" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"How British Tabloid Newspapers compete to call an incident a terrorist attack."
"How British Tabloid Newspapers compete to call an incident a terrorist attack."
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- Attachments
-
- tmp-cam--1599296028.jpg (28.91 KiB) Viewed 15890 times
- AngryAsWell
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 5852
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
The inside story of how David Cameron drove Britain to Brexit
Cameron’s top man on Europe looks back and tells all about how a leader who wanted his party to stop banging on about Europe ended up destroying the UK’s place in the EU—and himself
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/poli ... -to-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Cameron’s top man on Europe looks back and tells all about how a leader who wanted his party to stop banging on about Europe ended up destroying the UK’s place in the EU—and himself
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/poli ... -to-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
- AngryAsWell
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 5852
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
‘I thought I’d put in a protest vote’: the people who regret voting leave
In June 2016 they voted out of Europe, now they’re not so sure. Meet the Brexit voters who have changed their minds
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ave-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In June 2016 they voted out of Europe, now they’re not so sure. Meet the Brexit voters who have changed their minds
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ave-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15798
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
The sacred cause of Brexit can never fail, just be failed.tinybgoat wrote:
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
http://occupylondon.org.uk/events/indep ... onference/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Live coverage of the Independent Living Campaign Conference,for those interested.
Live coverage of the Independent Living Campaign Conference,for those interested.
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
The speech transcript is about twenty pages long and made before an audience with some specialist historical knowledge, not the general public. I could be wrong.On 24th November, [Former UK Permanent Representative to the EU] Ivan Rogers gave a lecture at Hertford College, Oxford on David Cameron, having worked as Permanent Representative of the UK to the European Union while Cameron was Prime Minister. The talk was part of a series on PMs since Margaret Thatcher and their relationships with the continent.
I found Rogers' descriptions of processes opaque and his references to 'Euro elites' without context or explanation dismaying. Rogers imbued Cameron with intellectual capabilities he doesn't possess. Anyone else make anything of it?
Edited to correct the article I'm referring toAngryAsWell wrote:The inside story of how David Cameron drove Britain to Brexit
Cameron’s top man on Europe looks back and tells all about how a leader who wanted his party to stop banging on about Europe ended up destroying the UK’s place in the EU—and himself
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/poli ... -to-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by citizenJA on Sat 25 Nov, 2017 3:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Good-afternoon, everyone
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
@AngryAsWell
Many thanks for linking the Prospect article
Many thanks for linking the Prospect article
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
http://www.private-eye.co.uk/issue-1456/in-the-back" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
https://www.politico.eu/article/theresa ... xit-front/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Northern Ireland’s Democratic Unionist Party lays down ‘red lines’ on Irish border issue."
"Northern Ireland’s Democratic Unionist Party lays down ‘red lines’ on Irish border issue."
Senior figures from Northern Ireland’s Democratic Unionist Party, which agreed a confidence and supply deal to keep May’s minority government in power after her disastrous June snap election, have advocated a walk-out from Brexit talks if European leaders continue to block progress.
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -care-cashSenior Tories in budget backlash over NHS and social care cash
Two former health secretaries and chair of select committee call for end to short-term thinking as crisis grows (Guardian)
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 67841.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"EU demands in next round of talks set to enrage Cabinet Brexiteers, leak reveals
Exclusive: Papers passed to The Independent show a good transition deal will be conditional on UK accepting new EU rules during the two-year period"
"EU demands in next round of talks set to enrage Cabinet Brexiteers, leak reveals
Exclusive: Papers passed to The Independent show a good transition deal will be conditional on UK accepting new EU rules during the two-year period"
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
That's some cheek from Lansley. This mess is mostly his fault.PorFavor wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... -care-cashSenior Tories in budget backlash over NHS and social care cash
Two former health secretaries and chair of select committee call for end to short-term thinking as crisis grows (Guardian)
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
I found it quite interesting. It gave me a different perspective which is now making me wonder if Cameron was trying to use the threat of an in/out referendum as a bargaining chip with the EU - give us what we want or we might vote to leave. Only what "we" wanted wasn't quite the same as what Cameron wanted. His attempts to force a two tier Europe agreement was usurped by the hard right Eurosceptic brigade with a narrative of curbing immigration and taking back control. And he's right, that was quite a late switch, although the ground had been well prepared by the right wing anti-EU, anti-immigrant press over the preceding decade.citizenJA wrote:The speech transcript is about twenty pages long and made before an audience with some specialist historical knowledge, not the general public. I could be wrong.On 24th November, [Former UK Permanent Representative to the EU] Ivan Rogers gave a lecture at Hertford College, Oxford on David Cameron, having worked as Permanent Representative of the UK to the European Union while Cameron was Prime Minister. The talk was part of a series on PMs since Margaret Thatcher and their relationships with the continent.
I found Rogers' descriptions of processes opaque and his references to 'Euro elites' without context or explanation dismaying. Rogers imbued Cameron with intellectual capabilities he doesn't possess. Anyone else make anything of it?Edited to correct the article I'm referring toAngryAsWell wrote:The inside story of how David Cameron drove Britain to Brexit
Cameron’s top man on Europe looks back and tells all about how a leader who wanted his party to stop banging on about Europe ended up destroying the UK’s place in the EU—and himself
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/poli ... -to-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
From what I could make out, Cameron ran out of time to negotiate with the EU and was pushed to do the referendum
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9714
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Here goes (Clanger style)
[youtube]Rfr9bhSmfXc[/youtube]
[youtube]Rfr9bhSmfXc[/youtube]
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Ivan Davis' account doesn't bother inquiring into why Cameron allowed such a disastrously constructed EU referendum bill incompetently designed and passed into law. The portrait painted of Dave Cameron by Ivan Davis isn't credible. Cameron is without the sophistication and diplomacy skills required.
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
(cJA edit)Willow904 wrote:---
I found it quite interesting. It gave me a different perspective which is now making me wonder if Cameron was trying to use the threat of an in/out referendum as a bargaining chip with the EU - give us what we want or we might vote to leave. Only what "we" wanted wasn't quite the same as what Cameron wanted. His attempts to force a two tier Europe agreement was usurped by the hard right Eurosceptic brigade with a narrative of curbing immigration and taking back control. And he's right, that was quite a late switch, although the ground had been well prepared by the right wing anti-EU, anti-immigrant press over the preceding decade.
It was likely Ivan Davis the brains of it all
Cameron just say, okay, go for it
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Here am I peevish and fretful with layers of clothing against the cold
Don't feel like dancing
Every injury ever sustained aches in that part of my body
Don't feel like dancing
Every injury ever sustained aches in that part of my body
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Yes, he doesn't go into the framing of the referendum at all. Just a small note on why the negotiated changes didn't figure in the remain campaign. The picture of Cameron being far more Eurosceptic than every PM back to Thatcher rings true. Which is why he was such a poor person to lead the remain campaign. There's a lot of arrogance and incompetence sloshing around under Davis' portrait of events. That he isn't overt in saying so, and seems at pains to give Cameron credit where he can, doesn't really take away from the overall impression of abject failure of leadership, IMO.citizenJA wrote:Ivan Davis' account doesn't bother inquiring into why Cameron allowed such a disastrously constructed EU referendum bill incompetently designed and passed into law. The portrait painted of Dave Cameron by Ivan Davis isn't credible. Cameron is without the sophistication and diplomacy skills required.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
I've no doubt this is true. A situation described above requires a competent person don't fumble it. Cameron was good at fumbling it.“The European Council of December 2011 was very nearly the moment of terminal rupture between the UK and the EU”
"...in Westminster, the passage of legislation specifically and solely designed to cauterise eurozone wounds and address eurozone needs, inflamed Conservative opinion. The mood amongst many of the backbenchers was that the eurozone was the proverbial burning building with no exits, might be nearing collapse, needed our urgent assistance in preventing collapse, and needed Treaty changes in its own interests. So, no better time to name our price for Treaty changes of our own. Many were gunning for an in-out referendum right away. They were not talking much about free movement, borders or the European Court of Justice then. It was about divorce from the burning building."
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/poli ... -to-brexit" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I had a difficult time staying patient with Ivan Davis' story. He's lost inside the political machinery. What Cameron was attempting isn't clear.
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Yes, exactly. I don't have your keen discernment and way with words.Willow904 wrote:Yes, he doesn't go into the framing of the referendum at all. Just a small note on why the negotiated changes didn't figure in the remain campaign. The picture of Cameron being far more Eurosceptic than every PM back to Thatcher rings true. Which is why he was such a poor person to lead the remain campaign. There's a lot of arrogance and incompetence sloshing around under Davis' portrait of events. That he isn't overt in saying so, and seems at pains to give Cameron credit where he can, doesn't really take away from the overall impression of abject failure of leadership, IMO.citizenJA wrote:Ivan Davis' account doesn't bother inquiring into why Cameron allowed such a disastrously constructed EU referendum bill incompetently designed and passed into law. The portrait painted of Dave Cameron by Ivan Davis isn't credible. Cameron is without the sophistication and diplomacy skills required.
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 15798
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 9:26 pm
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Pleased about something?HindleA wrote:
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
FWIW I find the judicious use of opening myself up to the cold and wind,given smoking outside anyway and coming inside and the contrast useful in feeling warm,though I have experienced fridge/freezer conditions for some hours at a time and maybe not completely sane but I am currently comfortable without need of extra clothing(boxer short/dressing gown "normality")
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9714
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
@AK Belated dancing/recognition of djTC2 contribution.
Last edited by HindleA on Sat 25 Nov, 2017 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9714
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
How utterly unexpected.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 75691.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Analysis found NHS will receive 'only a fraction' of funds promised by Leave campaigners after Brexit
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9714
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
I didn't understand at the time (or at any time since) why Cameron couldn't simply have said, OK, interesting input, this is a mandate to look at what Brexit would mean and we'll get back to you when we know more. ie: the referendum was a reason to spend time and money looking into it.http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/edi ... 75971.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
For many of the British people, Brexit has been a long, slow process in accepting the reality that should have been better understood before the referendum. In the next three weeks, some things will become brutally clear that should have been obvious long ago.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
[youtube]TRPT03m2lZM[/youtube]
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/dom ... 75411.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Women's refuges face closure due to lack of funding – the Government must take action to protect victims of domestic violence
Women's refuges face closure due to lack of funding – the Government must take action to protect victims of domestic violence
Last edited by HindleA on Sat 25 Nov, 2017 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- tinyclanger2
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 9714
- Joined: Thu 18 Sep, 2014 9:18 pm
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
No kidding.http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 74451.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
UK government ministers do not understand the consequences of Brexit, a British judge on the European Court of Justice has warned, according to a leaked report that reveals EU fears about the impact of “chaos in the Conservative government”.
Ian Forrester, who has been the UK’s representative at the court since 2015, reportedly told Irish diplomats that British ministers do not “grasp” the complexities of leaving the EU and claimed there were “issues around the quality of politicians in Westminster at present”.
LET'S FACE IT I'M JUST 'KIN' SEETHIN'
-
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 27400
- Joined: Tue 26 Aug, 2014 12:40 am
- Location: Three quarters way to hell
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
"You are bloody garden ornaments,you can't get frostbite"
FFS
FFS
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... r-dark-ads" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Vote Leave donations: the dark ads, the mystery ‘letter’ – and Brexit’s online guru"
"Vote Leave donations: the dark ads, the mystery ‘letter’ – and Brexit’s online guru"
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
Goodnight, everyone
it's raining, cold
stay warm & dry
love,
cJA
it's raining, cold
stay warm & dry
love,
cJA
- AngryAsWell
- Prime Minister
- Posts: 5852
- Joined: Mon 25 Aug, 2014 7:35 pm
Re: Saturday 25th & Sunday 26th November 2017
I think the biggest point about Cameron - that every one forgets or ignores (or pretends wasn't true/ was just a ploy) - is that he won the tory leadership on Euroscepticism. He based his campaign (to the party - if not his public persona) on being anti EU. At some point he had to live up to his leadership campaign's EU scepticism. During the coalition term he had good excuses why he could not act against the EU. After he won his small majority he had no more excuses and so the referendum - arranged/organised on the best terms possible for "out" to win - was born, and won.tinyclanger2 wrote:I didn't understand at the time (or at any time since) why Cameron couldn't simply have said, OK, interesting input, this is a mandate to look at what Brexit would mean and we'll get back to you when we know more. ie: the referendum was a reason to spend time and money looking into it.http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/edi ... 75971.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
For many of the British people, Brexit has been a long, slow process in accepting the reality that should have been better understood before the referendum. In the next three weeks, some things will become brutally clear that should have been obvious long ago.
To Cameron's satisfaction.
He got what he wanted all along, even at the cost of his own personal power.