Tuesday 4th September 2018
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Tuesday 4th September 2018
Morning all.
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Morning.
Labour are going to regret using the word "caveat", I suspect, especially when it's not even the right word for a supporting clarification.
They could do with someone with legal training to defend their stance on this complicated subject, not a random member of Momentum - as was the case on Victoria Derbyshire this morning. What was that about?
Still, now summer break is over the media will have to talk about Brexit again and that should put the spotlight back where it belongs, on the government.
Labour are going to regret using the word "caveat", I suspect, especially when it's not even the right word for a supporting clarification.
They could do with someone with legal training to defend their stance on this complicated subject, not a random member of Momentum - as was the case on Victoria Derbyshire this morning. What was that about?
Still, now summer break is over the media will have to talk about Brexit again and that should put the spotlight back where it belongs, on the government.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Good-morning, everyone
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
" ... that should put the spotlight back where it belongs, on the government."Willow904 wrote:Morning.
Labour are going to regret using the word "caveat", I suspect, especially when it's not even the right word for a supporting clarification.
They could do with someone with legal training to defend their stance on this complicated subject, not a random member of Momentum - as was the case on Victoria Derbyshire this morning. What was that about?
Still, now summer break is over the media will have to talk about Brexit again and that should put the spotlight back where it belongs, on the government.
If only ! On Toady Kinnock Jr was calling for 'remorse' from Corbyn , whatever that is ... as if anything apart from his elimination will satisfy the Blairites , LFI, BoD and Netanyahu.
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... ss-england" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
New free schools to open across England
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... plications" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
New free schools to open across England
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... plications" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Last edited by HindleA on Tue 04 Sep, 2018 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/asia ... n-cornwall" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Asian hornet identified in Cornwall
An Asian hornet has been found in Cornwall and surveillance activity is underway.
Asian hornet identified in Cornwall
An Asian hornet has been found in Cornwall and surveillance activity is underway.
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Guidance
Primary school accountability
(Updated)
Primary school accountability
(Updated)
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
https://www.gov.uk/government/statistic ... rovisional" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
National curriculum assessments: key stage 2, 2018 (provisional)
National curriculum assessments: key stage 2, 2018 (provisional)
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... llocations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Guidance
Basic need allocations
Basic need capital funding allocated to each local authority to create new places from 2011 to 2021.
(Updated)
Guidance
Basic need allocations
Basic need capital funding allocated to each local authority to create new places from 2011 to 2021.
(Updated)
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Open consultation
Implementation of Technical Qualifications
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... ifications" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Implementation of Technical Qualifications
https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... ifications" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
I got my draft notice in the post giving me classes I have to teachHindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... ss-england
New free schools to open across England
I've serious concerns:
- I've no teaching qualifications at this time
- it's unpaid
- the tent provided isn't sufficient for a classroom full of children and their drafted teacher
- the portable toilets haven't arrived
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
There's no such thing as a free school.HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... ss-england
New free schools to open across England
https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... plications" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
I guess as long as there's only one we should be OK for now?HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/asia ... n-cornwall
Asian hornet identified in Cornwall
An Asian hornet has been found in Cornwall and surveillance activity is underway.
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Interesting blog and very well written.
https://duncanroy.com/2018/07/27/rosie-duffield-mp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://duncanroy.com/2018/07/27/rosie-duffield-mp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... ing-policy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Government faces court action over 'illegal' planning policy
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
I think I'd be better hornet hunting in Cornwall than teaching without qualificationsHindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/asia ... n-cornwall
Asian hornet identified in Cornwall
An Asian hornet has been found in Cornwall and surveillance activity is underway.
I wonder if government will permit a transfer
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Ah yes Kinnock Jnr, all the old man's vices without any of his compensating virtues.frog222 wrote:" ... that should put the spotlight back where it belongs, on the government."Willow904 wrote:Morning.
Labour are going to regret using the word "caveat", I suspect, especially when it's not even the right word for a supporting clarification.
They could do with someone with legal training to defend their stance on this complicated subject, not a random member of Momentum - as was the case on Victoria Derbyshire this morning. What was that about?
Still, now summer break is over the media will have to talk about Brexit again and that should put the spotlight back where it belongs, on the government.
If only ! On Toady Kinnock Jr was calling for 'remorse' from Corbyn , whatever that is ... as if anything apart from his elimination will satisfy the Blairites , LFI, BoD and Netanyahu.
An entertaining online debate going on right now about whether his "book" that the Graun shamelessly puffed yesterday actually exists in any meaningful sense
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Dear me
Tuesday's #PoliticsLive guests will include @AndrewMarr9 @jessphillips Tim Martin and @trussliz joining @Jo_Coburn
I shan't be turning that on!
Tuesday's #PoliticsLive guests will include @AndrewMarr9 @jessphillips Tim Martin and @trussliz joining @Jo_Coburn
I shan't be turning that on!
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Didn't know that Rosie Duffield was "one of them".gilsey wrote:Interesting blog and very well written.
https://duncanroy.com/2018/07/27/rosie-duffield-mp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
"I asked her if she thought Jeremy Corbyn was anti semitic and a racist.gilsey wrote:Interesting blog and very well written.
https://duncanroy.com/2018/07/27/rosie-duffield-mp/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rosie wanted me to know her fiancé is black, that she couldn’t possibly understand what it is like to be black, gay or jewish. She had to accept as the truth from her jewish friends if they were convinced Jeremy was anti-Semitic… she had no option but to believe them. "
Definitely very thick, OR just seriously under-educated for some reason(s).Could she be saved ?
The Holocaust particularly being used to justify the taboo/self-censorship on having an independent opinion?
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.AnatolyKasparov wrote: Ah yes Kinnock Jnr, all the old man's vices without any of his compensating virtues.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
I turned it on in all innocence to see the 'new look' and turned it off again sharpish.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Dear me
Tuesday's #PoliticsLive guests will include @AndrewMarr9 @jessphillips Tim Martin and @trussliz joining @Jo_Coburn
I shan't be turning that on!
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Time for your occasional reminder that he (SK) originally won selection to his present seat before the 2015 GE by the princely margin of just 1 (ONE) vote.gilsey wrote:History repeats itself, first as tragedy, second as farce.AnatolyKasparov wrote: Ah yes Kinnock Jnr, all the old man's vices without any of his compensating virtues.
Deselection express choo-choo?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Today’s Live thread does apply some correctives to the notion that the IHRA code is sacred, notably strong reservations by the Author of it !
"The man who drafted this statement that defines antisemitism, the American lawyer who is Jewish himself, Kenneth Stern, says he now regrets that the wording of some of the examples he’s included has restricted freedom of speech when you are discussing the state of Israel. So, if they do include all of those poorly-worded examples, we have got to make absolutely sure that people aren’t then disciplined for simply stating historical facts, or having an honest and open debate."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... 3ab23d145d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Examples of it being used for censorship --
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk ... s-its-use/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"The man who drafted this statement that defines antisemitism, the American lawyer who is Jewish himself, Kenneth Stern, says he now regrets that the wording of some of the examples he’s included has restricted freedom of speech when you are discussing the state of Israel. So, if they do include all of those poorly-worded examples, we have got to make absolutely sure that people aren’t then disciplined for simply stating historical facts, or having an honest and open debate."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... 3ab23d145d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Examples of it being used for censorship --
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk ... s-its-use/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
It sounds like the final compromise proposal is to take the IHRA thing in full, but to explicitly add that it does not prevent legit criticism of Israel.frog222 wrote:Today’s Live thread does apply some correctives to the notion that the IHRA code is sacred, notably strong reservations by the Author of it !
"The man who drafted this statement that defines antisemitism, the American lawyer who is Jewish himself, Kenneth Stern, says he now regrets that the wording of some of the examples he’s included has restricted freedom of speech when you are discussing the state of Israel. So, if they do include all of those poorly-worded examples, we have got to make absolutely sure that people aren’t then disciplined for simply stating historical facts, or having an honest and open debate."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... 3ab23d145d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Examples of it being used for censorship --
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk ... s-its-use/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some folk will perhaps rightly say this isn't actually as good as the original Labour proposal, because the IHRA wording is not sufficiently watertight in parts to withstand scrutiny in court.
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
And who defines what is legit , a minefield !PaulfromYorkshire wrote:It sounds like the final compromise proposal is to take the IHRA thing in full, but to explicitly add that it does not prevent legit criticism of Israel.frog222 wrote:Today’s Live thread does apply some correctives to the notion that the IHRA code is sacred, notably strong reservations by the Author of it !
"The man who drafted this statement that defines antisemitism, the American lawyer who is Jewish himself, Kenneth Stern, says he now regrets that the wording of some of the examples he’s included has restricted freedom of speech when you are discussing the state of Israel. So, if they do include all of those poorly-worded examples, we have got to make absolutely sure that people aren’t then disciplined for simply stating historical facts, or having an honest and open debate."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... 3ab23d145d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Examples of it being used for censorship --
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk ... s-its-use/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some folk will perhaps rightly say this isn't actually as good as the original Labour proposal, because the IHRA wording is not sufficiently watertight in parts to withstand scrutiny in court.
(I don't know if the original LP one could stand up in court either ... not being in Law .)
"" Of course the groups which were behind this “McCarthy-like” repression of free speech condemned by Stern are the very same ones which are now engaged in the current vendetta against Corbyn. For example in the case of the Bristol University lecturer who was subjected to an inquiry into false accusations of antisemitism, it was the misnamed Campaign Against Antisemitism, in reality an aggressively pro-Israel lobby group, which had called for her to be sacked unless she recanted.
Tellingly Stern clearly recognises the intrinsic logical absurdity and threat to free speech which arises where consistent attempts are made to ban political speech regarding states or governments:""
(JVL above link .)
Corbyn has been consistently wrong-footed on this, apparently believing that 'apologies' work with people who were and still are after his elimination. And anyway he didn't have anything to apologise for . Late for beach but off at any rate !
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
This is obviously in hindsight, so not criticism, just an observation - but if the NEC had taken the time to consult outside the party among the wider Jewish community before officially adopting their revised examples (rather than offering to do so only after) they may have been in a stronger position from which to stick to their guns. Also, not adopting the IHRA at all, given the concerns the NEC appeared to have with it, was also an option.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:It sounds like the final compromise proposal is to take the IHRA thing in full, but to explicitly add that it does not prevent legit criticism of Israel.frog222 wrote:Today’s Live thread does apply some correctives to the notion that the IHRA code is sacred, notably strong reservations by the Author of it !
"The man who drafted this statement that defines antisemitism, the American lawyer who is Jewish himself, Kenneth Stern, says he now regrets that the wording of some of the examples he’s included has restricted freedom of speech when you are discussing the state of Israel. So, if they do include all of those poorly-worded examples, we have got to make absolutely sure that people aren’t then disciplined for simply stating historical facts, or having an honest and open debate."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... 3ab23d145d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Examples of it being used for censorship --
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk ... s-its-use/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some folk will perhaps rightly say this isn't actually as good as the original Labour proposal, because the IHRA wording is not sufficiently watertight in parts to withstand scrutiny in court.
Given where we are, however, the only way to move on seems to be to "adopt in full" (easy, really, as they already have ) and just get on with it and worry about the possibility of it being abused to repress free speech only when or if that actually happens. As long as those who came up with the definition insist it isn't antisemitic to criticise Israel, it should be possible to prevent it being used as cover to attack those who exercise that freedom of speech within Labour.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Yes, I think most objective observes agree that not consulting Jewish groups before was Corbyn's/the NEC's biggest error.
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Yes completely agree.Willow904 wrote:This is obviously in hindsight, so not criticism, just an observation - but if the NEC had taken the time to consult outside the party among the wider Jewish community before officially adopting their revised examples (rather than offering to do so only after) they may have been in a stronger position from which to stick to their guns. Also, not adopting the IHRA at all, given the concerns the NEC appeared to have with it, was also an option.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:It sounds like the final compromise proposal is to take the IHRA thing in full, but to explicitly add that it does not prevent legit criticism of Israel.frog222 wrote:Today’s Live thread does apply some correctives to the notion that the IHRA code is sacred, notably strong reservations by the Author of it !
"The man who drafted this statement that defines antisemitism, the American lawyer who is Jewish himself, Kenneth Stern, says he now regrets that the wording of some of the examples he’s included has restricted freedom of speech when you are discussing the state of Israel. So, if they do include all of those poorly-worded examples, we have got to make absolutely sure that people aren’t then disciplined for simply stating historical facts, or having an honest and open debate."
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/bl ... 3ab23d145d" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Examples of it being used for censorship --
https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk ... s-its-use/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Some folk will perhaps rightly say this isn't actually as good as the original Labour proposal, because the IHRA wording is not sufficiently watertight in parts to withstand scrutiny in court.
Given where we are, however, the only way to move on seems to be to "adopt in full" (easy, really, as they already have ) and just get on with it and worry about the possibility of it being abused to repress free speech only when or if that actually happens. As long as those who came up with the definition insist it isn't antisemitic to criticise Israel, it should be possible to prevent it being used as cover to attack those who exercise that freedom of speech within Labour.
As it happens, the Israeli influence that has emerged has been quite revealing and has shocked even me. So maybe not all bad in terms of openness.
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
PFY ( &Willow) -- "" Yes completely agree.
As it happens, the Israeli influence that has emerged has been quite revealing and has shocked even me. So maybe not all bad in terms of openness.""
You don't have a 'Ministry for Strategic Affairs' for nothing
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2018-05-0 ... my-corbyn/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This site is not as extreme as it may appear --
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/as ... assy-front" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
McCarthyism sums up very well the orchestrated Corbynophobia !
( Apologies to all those with the name McCarthy )
As it happens, the Israeli influence that has emerged has been quite revealing and has shocked even me. So maybe not all bad in terms of openness.""
You don't have a 'Ministry for Strategic Affairs' for nothing
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2018-05-0 ... my-corbyn/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This site is not as extreme as it may appear --
https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/as ... assy-front" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
McCarthyism sums up very well the orchestrated Corbynophobia !
( Apologies to all those with the name McCarthy )
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/society/sho ... air-flight" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Five difficulties wheelchair users face when flying by plane
In general bat shit stupidity to deny yourself incalcuable amounts of revenue for the minimum of effort.
Five difficulties wheelchair users face when flying by plane
In general bat shit stupidity to deny yourself incalcuable amounts of revenue for the minimum of effort.
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Good.Laura Kuenssberg
Verified account
@bbclaurak
15m
15 minutes ago
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Labour HAS now agreed all the IHRA examples 'alongside a statement which ensures this will not in any way undermine freedom of expression on Israel or the rights of Palestinians' - full text to follow
Now can we please get back to doing something about Labour's Brexit policy?
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
https://www.parliament.uk/business/publ ... 4/HCWS932/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Social Housing Green Paper:Written statement
Social Housing Green Paper:Written statement
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
(Conveniently ignoring the" looking after "infantilisation)
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
[youtube]OC9sESRMRRM[/youtube]Labour Friends of Israel is not happy with the party’s new position. (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
I know it's said that we get the politicians we deserve bit surely we deserve better than this idiot?
Matthew Holehouse
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MP Emma Reynolds asks about EU warnings on UK-content in auto manufacturing for rules of origin purposes.
Brexit sec Dominic Raab says she should be "showing a bit of mettle and standing up for this country."
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Well they can jolly well shut upPorFavor wrote:[youtube]OC9sESRMRRM[/youtube]Labour Friends of Israel is not happy with the party’s new position. (Politics Live, Guardian)
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Labour adopts IHRA antisemitism definition in full
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... on-in-full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... on-in-full" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
What Corbyn wanted included but withdrew:
- Attachments
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- IMG_20180904_182448.jpg (37.5 KiB) Viewed 8353 times
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
He and his party are lostRogerOThornhill wrote:I know it's said that we get the politicians we deserve bit surely we deserve better than this idiot?Matthew Holehouse
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MP Emma Reynolds asks about EU warnings on UK-content in auto manufacturing for rules of origin purposes.
Brexit sec Dominic Raab says she should be "showing a bit of mettle and standing up for this country."
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
JC's amendment may not have been formally adopted, but I expect the burden of proof will still be on those who claim such statements are AS - rather than the opposite.
(basically, I expect them to normally be allowed unless there is other "incriminating" evidence)
(basically, I expect them to normally be allowed unless there is other "incriminating" evidence)
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Old NEC of course not the new cleansed version ie.non binding.
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
nothing wrong with what Corbyn wanted included but I guess that doesn't matter
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
From the G live blog:
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Approval is approval, however grudging. Labour finally out of the woods on this, it seems.Board of Deputies gives qualified welcome to NEC move, saying it's 'right call' but 'long overdue'
The Board of Deputies of British Jews has given a qualified welcome to the Labour NEC decision. Its statement is much more measured that the one from Labour Friends of Israel (see 5.52pm), although the Board of Deputies is still asking for an apology from Jeremy Corbyn.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
citizenJA wrote:nothing wrong with what Corbyn wanted included but I guess that doesn't matter
The inclusion of "...the circumstances around its foundation..." might have proved controversial, I suspect. The statement in support of free speech on the other hand is much harder to object to, though some of Corbyn and Labour's critics have been petty enough to try.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
Not out of the woods?HindleA wrote:Old NEC of course not the new cleansed version ie.non binding.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Tuesday 4th September 2018
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0bk5q99" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Profits before Pupils? The Academies Scandal
(Panorama next Monday)
Pto
Profits before Pupils? The Academies Scandal
(Panorama next Monday)
Pto