Monday 26th November 2018
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Monday 26th November 2018
Morning all.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Good-morning, everyone
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Constance has burnt the cornflakes..not for the first time.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Rising homelessness isn’t inevitable, it’s a political choice
Rising homelessness isn’t inevitable, it’s a political choice
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
"Not having a home isn't just for Christmas"
Last edited by HindleA on Mon 26 Nov, 2018 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
This is a strange thing.
As mentioned on Saturday, the Huddersfield "grooming" scandal is back in the news. One of my local (Tory) councillors has questioned the integrity of the Chair of the Inquiry.
Which was quite amusing since I'd principally clicked on the link because the headline was "Tories accused of shameful behaviour"
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/wes ... w-15458561" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
As mentioned on Saturday, the Huddersfield "grooming" scandal is back in the news. One of my local (Tory) councillors has questioned the integrity of the Chair of the Inquiry.
Anyway when I clicked through I got one of those surveys to do before you can read. And it was obviously funded by the Tories or someone close. Did I think there should be a peoples vote? Did I agree the last thing we needed was a Tory leadership contest? Did I think Labour's Brexit policy was clear? etc."This job needs to be done by someone who has no links to the partner organisations involved and it needs to be judge-led so that attendance is not voluntary."
Which was quite amusing since I'd principally clicked on the link because the headline was "Tories accused of shameful behaviour"
https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/wes ... w-15458561" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
I'd burst into mortified tears getting a DNA kit for ChristmasCyber Monday 2018: guide to the best UK deals and offers
Ancestry is offering £30 off DNA kits.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
I've hidden the croissants but forgotten whereHindleA wrote:Constance has burnt the cornflakes..not for the first time.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Tomorrow is Buy f.a.if you can help it Day .
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
I was in one hell of tough spot some years ago; I didn't have a safe place to live. I endured an abusive relationship for some time until I was able to get out. I'll never forget it.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
When I say tomorrow,I mean everyday."Is your purchase really necessary?"
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
I childishly enjoy the fact that the Government has propaganised me as being unfair having this one.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Mr citizen makes thrift and sustainable living a good time.HindleA wrote:When I say tomorrow,I mean everyday."Is your purchase really necessary?"
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
(cJA edit)PaulfromYorkshire wrote:---
Did I think there should be a peoples vote? Did I agree the last thing we needed was a Tory leadership contest? Did I think Labour's Brexit policy was clear? etc.
---
Those were the question, seriously? I don't doubt it. I don't trust or respect Tory government. When May lost her majority and mandate, she should've understood her government's limitations. That was the time to pull back, seek cooperation with the rest of the House and not plunge the country and people into this.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Morning all.
Well this is great news.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46341310" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jeremy Hunt needs to be congratulated if he managed to get this arranged.
It seems that he is already considerably better than the last occupant of the job although that wouldn't be difficult.
Well this is great news.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46341310" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jeremy Hunt needs to be congratulated if he managed to get this arranged.
It seems that he is already considerably better than the last occupant of the job although that wouldn't be difficult.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
" Ministers would argue that the money to comprehensively tackle homelessness isn’t there in the Treasury coffers. This is rank dishonesty: Tory chancellors will have delivered £22bn of income tax cuts – the benefits of which flow to the most affluent half of families – by 2020. Allowing homelessness to rise isn’t some inevitable consequence of fiscal responsibility. It’s a political choice."HindleA wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... ssion=true
Rising homelessness isn’t inevitable, it’s a political choice
£22bn. A figure to remember.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
I light my woodstove with a roaring fire, enough to perc the coffee pot , and my croissants were a little burnt toocitizenJA wrote:I've hidden the croissants but forgotten whereHindleA wrote:Constance has burnt the cornflakes..not for the first time.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
They are still saying he is guilty, of courseRogerOThornhill wrote:Morning all.
Well this is great news.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-46341310" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Jeremy Hunt needs to be congratulated if he managed to get this arranged.
It seems that he is already considerably better than the last occupant of the job although that wouldn't be difficult.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Those weren't the exact words. I wish I'd noted them down before pressing submit.citizenJA wrote:(cJA edit)PaulfromYorkshire wrote:---
Did I think there should be a peoples vote? Did I agree the last thing we needed was a Tory leadership contest? Did I think Labour's Brexit policy was clear? etc.
---
Those were the question, seriously? I don't doubt it. I don't trust or respect Tory government. When May lost her majority and mandate, she should've understood her government's limitations. That was the time to pull back, seek cooperation with the rest of the House and not plunge the country and people into this.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
@RoT
I did actually think when Hunt was appointed that his smooth talking, behind the scenes manner was certainly more suited to diplomacy than to NHS strategy and of course a big improvement on Johnson's approach.
I still wish he would go away though. I can't believe he did this on principle. Just realpolitik.
I did actually think when Hunt was appointed that his smooth talking, behind the scenes manner was certainly more suited to diplomacy than to NHS strategy and of course a big improvement on Johnson's approach.
I still wish he would go away though. I can't believe he did this on principle. Just realpolitik.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Well of course it'll be "We'll have our Foreign Secretary talk to your people. I'm sure we can come to an arrangement" - it's what the FCO does after all...PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@RoT
I did actually think when Hunt was appointed that his smooth talking, behind the scenes manner was certainly more suited to diplomacy than to NHS strategy and of course a big improvement on Johnson's approach.
I still wish he would go away though. I can't believe he did this on principle. Just realpolitik.
I can kinda see May's logic in putting Boris in one of the key Bexit roles to own what he'd helped bring about but I think everyone at the time was saying "WTAF?" - almost the perfect example of the wrong person for that job.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Surely you can't totally exclude a remnant of humanity in all politicians ?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:@RoT
I did actually think when Hunt was appointed that his smooth talking, behind the scenes manner was certainly more suited to diplomacy than to NHS strategy and of course a big improvement on Johnson's approach.
I still wish he would go away though. I can't believe he did this on principle. Just realpolitik.
That applies less to lawyers and the Law ! This Bargaining Chip had some hopes on the judgement :
" A court challenge over the legality of the EU’s Brexit negotiations brought by a 97-year-old war veteran and 12 other emigrant Britons has been rejected by the European court of justice in Luxembourg.
Harry Shindler, who lives in Italy, and others who reside in various EU member states had argued that the referendum in 2016 was invalid because they and more than a million Britons living in the EU were deprived of a vote. "
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/no ... y-shindler" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
So a case can be made only after harm has occurred ?
Interestingly the Commission sided with Harry&Co , but the Council was against !
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" What many dont know is the EU Commission made a Recommendation to the UK and 4 other member states after Harry lost at ECHR. That restricting voting rights was unjustly punishing those who exercise free movement rights to live and work elsewhere in EU "
There are a few more brexit legal cases on the go .
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 49001.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
edit: The High Court will rule as early as Christmas whether Brexit should be declared “void”, in a legal case given a turbo-boost by the criminal investigation into Leave funder Arron Banks.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 49001.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
edit: The High Court will rule as early as Christmas whether Brexit should be declared “void”, in a legal case given a turbo-boost by the criminal investigation into Leave funder Arron Banks.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
" Brexit is not, thankfully, a question of war. But, like Iraq, Brexit is an act of unprovoked self-harm and a massive strategic mistake that threatens Britain’s credibility and authority in the world. Like Iraq, Brexit is being taken forward on an establishment consensus, led by the government, that it is now inevitable and unavoidable, and that mis-steps taken so far, however regrettable, are irreversible.
Also like Iraq, Brexit has brought out the very worst in our press – the language of “traitors” is back on the front pages "
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ir ... 50811.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Political courage is a rare commodity .
Also like Iraq, Brexit has brought out the very worst in our press – the language of “traitors” is back on the front pages "
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ir ... 50811.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Political courage is a rare commodity .
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Good morfternoon.
I'm still seething over Theresa May's post-signing press conference. She couldn't bring herself to say that she felt sorry that "Brexit" had happened even in the context of the divisions and unhappiness it has caused in the UK. She could have used that opportunity to at least try to extend an olive branch to "Remainers".
Graceless bitch. (Sorry - but that's how I'm feeling.)
Edited for clarity\accuracy.
I'm still seething over Theresa May's post-signing press conference. She couldn't bring herself to say that she felt sorry that "Brexit" had happened even in the context of the divisions and unhappiness it has caused in the UK. She could have used that opportunity to at least try to extend an olive branch to "Remainers".
Graceless bitch. (Sorry - but that's how I'm feeling.)
Edited for clarity\accuracy.
Last edited by PorFavor on Mon 26 Nov, 2018 1:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Earlier, I watched the BBC's Politics Live.
On the programme, Bernard Jenkin stated that Jeremy Corbyn was a "Remainer" who had capaigned for "Remain".He (BJ) was arguing against a "head-to-head" between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn on the basis that it would be a debate between two "Remainers". I took that to be a bid to dismantle Jeremy Corbyn's fence. I wonder what (JC's) response (if any) that will elicit.
On the programme, Bernard Jenkin stated that Jeremy Corbyn was a "Remainer" who had capaigned for "Remain".He (BJ) was arguing against a "head-to-head" between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn on the basis that it would be a debate between two "Remainers". I took that to be a bid to dismantle Jeremy Corbyn's fence. I wonder what (JC's) response (if any) that will elicit.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
I think Corbyn can say with real sincerity that it doesn't matter whether he is a Leaver or Remainer. He can say that while the country is divided into Leave and Remain there is little hope for a solution with popular support. His job as PM would be to seek the unity through compromise that May says she wants but has pointedly failed to deliver.PorFavor wrote:Earlier, I watched the BBC's Politics Live.
On the programme, Bernard Jenkin stated that Jeremy Corbyn was a "Remainer" who had capaigned for "Remain".He (BJ) was arguing against a "head-to-head" between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn on the basis that it would be a debate between two "Remainers". I took that to be a bid to dismantle Jeremy Corbyn's fence. I wonder what (JC's) response (if any) that will elicit.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Andrew Gwynne, Labour MP, on Twitter about May's meeting to talk to Labour MPs about her plans.
Do we get Knighthoods for attending? Asking for a friend.
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
" to seek the unity through compromise " OR perhaps change the game completely ...PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I think Corbyn can say with real sincerity that it doesn't matter whether he is a Leaver or Remainer. He can say that while the country is divided into Leave and Remain there is little hope for a solution with popular support. His job as PM would be to seek the unity through compromise that May says she wants but has pointedly failed to deliver.PorFavor wrote:Earlier, I watched the BBC's Politics Live.
On the programme, Bernard Jenkin stated that Jeremy Corbyn was a "Remainer" who had capaigned for "Remain".He (BJ) was arguing against a "head-to-head" between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn on the basis that it would be a debate between two "Remainers". I took that to be a bid to dismantle Jeremy Corbyn's fence. I wonder what (JC's) response (if any) that will elicit.
I'm just going out, but would be interested to see ideas when I come back !
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Makes a change from the opposite claim I suppose.PorFavor wrote:Earlier, I watched the BBC's Politics Live.
On the programme, Bernard Jenkin stated that Jeremy Corbyn was a "Remainer" who had capaigned for "Remain".He (BJ) was arguing against a "head-to-head" between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn on the basis that it would be a debate between two "Remainers". I took that to be a bid to dismantle Jeremy Corbyn's fence. I wonder what (JC's) response (if any) that will elicit.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
As I've said probably more frequently than is welcome, the way out of this impasse has to be to look forward.frog222 wrote:" to seek the unity through compromise " OR perhaps change the game completely ...PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I think Corbyn can say with real sincerity that it doesn't matter whether he is a Leaver or Remainer. He can say that while the country is divided into Leave and Remain there is little hope for a solution with popular support. His job as PM would be to seek the unity through compromise that May says she wants but has pointedly failed to deliver.PorFavor wrote:Earlier, I watched the BBC's Politics Live.
On the programme, Bernard Jenkin stated that Jeremy Corbyn was a "Remainer" who had capaigned for "Remain".He (BJ) was arguing against a "head-to-head" between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn on the basis that it would be a debate between two "Remainers". I took that to be a bid to dismantle Jeremy Corbyn's fence. I wonder what (JC's) response (if any) that will elicit.
I'm just going out, but would be interested to see ideas when I come back !
Leavers will have to accept that we aren't going back to 1970, Remainers that there is no return to 2010.
What future relationship can we imagine with the EU that may turn out to be a productive way forward for both sides? I don't have the answer to that, but I think a less financially and more socially driven EU is what is needed.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Strong stuff from Corbyn IMHO
https://labourlist.org/2018/11/ploughin ... statement/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ploughing-on-is-not-stoic-it-is-an-act-of-national-self-harm-corbyns-response-to-latest-brexit-statement
https://labourlist.org/2018/11/ploughin ... statement/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
ploughing-on-is-not-stoic-it-is-an-act-of-national-self-harm-corbyns-response-to-latest-brexit-statement
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Confused inboard flack for the Scottish MP who told Theresa May to "sit down" (3,9).
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Gareth Snell has said he is voting against May's deal - if she can't get him to support it, then the likelihood is hardly any Labour MPs will.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
https://theconversation.com/amp/will-th ... wer-107532" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Will Theresa May’s Brexit deal survive? Game theory has an answer"
"Will Theresa May’s Brexit deal survive? Game theory has an answer"
There being a reason doesn't necessarily preclude the possibility that she has also gone crazy.The European Union may have approved Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement, but getting her own MPs to do so seems impossible. And her approach is confusing. On the one hand, she has been telling pro-Remain MPs that they need to vote for her deal or they’ll be left with
no deal at all. On the other, she’s been warning eurosceptics that they could face another referendum or election unless they back her deal. As has been pointed out, both of these threats cannot be true simultaneously; either the prime minister has gone crazy or there is a reason.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Or she's assuming that people don't actually talk to each other...tinybgoat wrote:https://theconversation.com/amp/will-th ... wer-107532
"Will Theresa May’s Brexit deal survive? Game theory has an answer"There being a reason doesn't necessarily preclude the possibility that she has also gone crazy.The European Union may have approved Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement, but getting her own MPs to do so seems impossible. And her approach is confusing. On the one hand, she has been telling pro-Remain MPs that they need to vote for her deal or they’ll be left with
no deal at all. On the other, she’s been warning eurosceptics that they could face another referendum or election unless they back her deal. As has been pointed out, both of these threats cannot be true simultaneously; either the prime minister has gone crazy or there is a reason.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
If arch-loyalist Michael Fallon is getting edgy about this, then she really is sunk.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Just posted this elsewhere, but may be of interest here also:
Is May now fed up with the DUP and/or resigned to the fact that they are not going to vote for her deal? From the G's Politics Live blog:
Is May now fed up with the DUP and/or resigned to the fact that they are not going to vote for her deal? From the G's Politics Live blog:
She’s right about that, but those are not the words of someone who is trying to keep the DUP on-side.Ross Thomson, a Scottish Conservative, says he campaigned heart and soul to keep the UK together in the 2014 Scottish independence referendum. But this deal would leave Northern Ireland under EU control in some respects. As a passionate unionist, he cannot accept that.
May says she is also a passionate unionist. She says Northern Ireland already has different rules from GB in some respects. And she says in some respects the backstop could benefit Northern Ireland.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
I agree with all of that . But it's not a game-changer which brings everyone up short is it ?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:As I've said probably more frequently than is welcome, the way out of this impasse has to be to look forward.frog222 wrote:" to seek the unity through compromise " OR perhaps change the game completely ...PaulfromYorkshire wrote:PorFavor"]Earlier, I watched the BBC's Politics Live.
On the programme, Bernard Jenkin stated that Jeremy Corbyn was a "Remainer" who had capaigned for "Remain".He (BJ) was arguing against a "head-to-head" between Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn on the basis that it would be a debate between two "Remainers". I took that to be a bid to dismantle Jeremy Corbyn's fence. I wonder what (JC's) response (if any) that will elicit.
I think Corbyn can say with real sincerity that it doesn't matter whether he is a Leaver or Remainer. He can say that while the country is divided into Leave and Remain there is little hope for a solution with popular support. His job as PM would be to seek the unity through compromise that May says she wants but has pointedly failed to deliver.
I'm just going out, but would be interested to see ideas when I come back !
Leavers will have to accept that we aren't going back to 1970, Remainers that there is no return to 2010.
What future relationship can we imagine with the EU that may turn out to be a productive way forward for both sides? I don't have the answer to that, but I think a less financially and more socially driven EU is what is needed.
CLUE : Mine is a dangerous idea, and I may be wrong , but don't most normal people appreciate someone honestly admitting a mistake ... ?
( Think warfare, when parachuting added another dimension to it all... or Charles Kennedy going against most of Westminster over Iraq )
Is anyone finding those crossword clues ?
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
May's aides now appearing to play down any prospect of a TV debate with Corbyn.
Quelle surprise!
Quelle surprise!
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
PS 6.39 -- It's a speech that basically can only been made once, by the right person in the right place .
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
I give up.frog222 wrote:PS 6.39 -- It's a speech that basically can only been made once, by the right person in the right place .
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
That was a big fat CLUE .....PorFavor wrote:I give up.frog222 wrote:PS 6.39 -- It's a speech that basically can only been made once, by the right person in the right place .
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
It could well take the HoC by storm ...
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Would not necessarily need a magnificent WSC- level orator, but at least someone who could be heard by the chamber ,and journos ...
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
After all Geoffrey Howe did that ?
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Re: Monday 26th November 2018
Meaningful vote confirmed by govt sources for Tuesday 11th Dec
5 days of debate apparently
5 days of debate apparently
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
I like Gareth Snell. He's got one hell of a tough job. Conflicts must be safely contained. A rough confrontation results in people leaving the table and not coming back.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Gareth Snell has said he is voting against May's deal - if she can't get him to support it, then the likelihood is hardly any Labour MPs will.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
He's our MP, Gareth Snell. I'm speaking in a general way about his work in this constituency. I've not looked at the news this afternoon.
Re: Monday 26th November 2018
That's remarkable, the blatant contradiction of her reasoning, her cajoling.tinybgoat wrote:https://theconversation.com/amp/will-th ... wer-107532
"Will Theresa May’s Brexit deal survive? Game theory has an answer"There being a reason doesn't necessarily preclude the possibility that she has also gone crazy.The European Union may have approved Theresa May’s withdrawal agreement, but getting her own MPs to do so seems impossible. And her approach is confusing. On the one hand, she has been telling pro-Remain MPs that they need to vote for her deal or they’ll be left with
no deal at all. On the other, she’s been warning eurosceptics that they could face another referendum or election unless they back her deal. As has been pointed out, both of these threats cannot be true simultaneously; either the prime minister has gone crazy or there is a reason.
The Page Is Turned
Last edited by citizenJA on Mon 26 Nov, 2018 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.