Tuesday 27th November 2018
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Tuesday 27th November 2018
Morning all.
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... xit-plan-b" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Ministers consider backing ‘Norway plus’ as Brexit plan B"
This would still lead to division between those wanting to stay in it for a short period and then push for a trade deal, those wanting to move back to EU membership etc.
(and ignores Efta members being against temporary membership).
Have tried to decipher @Frog222 clues, went through various possible resignations (Queen, Mark Carney, Hammond) and decided on Gove sticking the boot in?
"Ministers consider backing ‘Norway plus’ as Brexit plan B"
This would still lead to division between those wanting to stay in it for a short period and then push for a trade deal, those wanting to move back to EU membership etc.
(and ignores Efta members being against temporary membership).
Have tried to decipher @Frog222 clues, went through various possible resignations (Queen, Mark Carney, Hammond) and decided on Gove sticking the boot in?
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-p ... -the-union" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
PM promises deal to strengthen the Union
PM promises deal to strengthen the Union
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/up-t ... ge-in-2018" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/grad ... emain-high" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Biggest ever study reveals graduate earnings up to the age of 29 compared to those who opted for a different route of study
Biggest ever study reveals graduate earnings up to the age of 29 compared to those who opted for a different route of study
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Constance down the caff for breakfast (the one remaining she isn't banned from...yet)
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Yes I ended up with the Queen resigning tootinybgoat wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... xit-plan-b
"Ministers consider backing ‘Norway plus’ as Brexit plan B"
This would still lead to division between those wanting to stay in it for a short period and then push for a trade deal, those wanting to move back to EU membership etc.
(and ignores Efta members being against temporary membership).
Have tried to decipher @Frog222 clues, went through various possible resignations (Queen, Mark Carney, Hammond) and decided on Gove sticking the boot in?
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/201 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://www.the-pool.com/arts-culture/t ... led-dancer" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
TBG -- I'll be back to you !
Overcast, soggy, miserable day here , are we down-hearted ?
Croissants NOT burnt this morning tho stove still hot enough to make coffee .
Cat in and out of his flap, snoring on tiled floor at 40°C ...
Overcast, soggy, miserable day here , are we down-hearted ?
Croissants NOT burnt this morning tho stove still hot enough to make coffee .
Cat in and out of his flap, snoring on tiled floor at 40°C ...
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://amp.theguardian.com/education/2 ... ssion=true" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
PFY 8.40 -- more good creative stuff going on there
We're in a weird situation where (nearly) everyone knows we are in a bind, on a hiding to nothing, but it appears to be a "TINA" one !
Reminds me of Yanis Varoufakis describing how the EU /IMF knew damn well they were sabotaging Greece , and wouldnt/couldn't get the 'debts' paid back, but still went on with it ....
We're in a weird situation where (nearly) everyone knows we are in a bind, on a hiding to nothing, but it appears to be a "TINA" one !
Reminds me of Yanis Varoufakis describing how the EU /IMF knew damn well they were sabotaging Greece , and wouldnt/couldn't get the 'debts' paid back, but still went on with it ....
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Good work TBG, gnawing away there !tinybgoat wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... xit-plan-b
"Ministers consider backing ‘Norway plus’ as Brexit plan B"
This would still lead to division between those wanting to stay in it for a short period and then push for a trade deal, those wanting to move back to EU membership etc.
(and ignores Efta members being against temporary membership).
Have tried to decipher @Frog222 clues, went through various possible resignations (Queen, Mark Carney, Hammond) and decided on Gove sticking the boot in?
This is just a first stab at defining where it went wrong.
The answer is that somehow parliament and the nation have to come to terms with the fact that the former fucked up in 2015, by overwhelmingly voting for the referendum at all.
Mea culpa, sackcloth and ashes, confessing, accepting responsibility, reparations ?
It's FAR FAR beyond a party matter . The institution failed , through lazy thinking, or actually ... not thinking at all. A lack of imagination all round.
They are all in it together (to coin a phrase) and misled themselves, and the whole UK .
EX : Imagine taking the MP's one by one, and asking them if they knew in 2015 that a Leave vote automatically meant the EMA leaving London ? YES/NO.
One scenario could be a significant MP confessing their own mistake and proving to the rest of them where collectively they had gone wrong in bypassing the representative nature of the UK system . In their heart of hearts, somewhere(!), most of them must know that, surely ?
Geoffrey Howe's speech to Thatcher, Charles Kennedy on Iraq, very much alone, https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ir ... 50811.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Robin Cook's resignation speech, and more from the May 1940 speeches on the Narvik débacle back through history , there have been occasions where MP's made a difference.
And truth was told .
Parliament failed the people by promising something that just could not exist, a possibility of solving today's undoubted problems by a return to a largely mythical past of glorious independence.
----------------------------------------------
PS I thought the Queen intervening in some way was rather good too ;
Remember her asking the economists in 2008 " WHY didn't YOU see it coming ?"
( Meaning "What bloody use are you !)
Just imagine a speech to the Nation :
" I'm sorry People, but our/your parliament has
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Priorities, priorities...
Downing Street’s desire for a peak slot may come against the brutal reality of TV schedules. The prime minister’s team want the largest possible audience for such a debate, but the only logistically possible Sunday night that could work is 9 December, which could bring its own problems if they wish to appear on one of the biggest terrestrial channels. That evening, BBC One is set to show Countryfile, the season finales of Doctor Who and David Attenborough’s Dynasties, plus Strictly Come Dancing and a new drama by Jimmy McGovern. Meanwhile, ITV will be showing the final of I’m a Celebrity … Get Me Out of Here. It is unlikely that a sceptical audience settling down for Sunday night viewing would welcome any of the shows being interrupted or delayed, even for a political debate that could shape the future of Britain.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Twitter really is an odd thing...first they halved the number of people I was following, then gave them back to me.
Now they've taken them all away. So, my ROT account has been abandoned for a while.
Good job I set another one up - but no politics, no education - just my OU and local history stuff.
Now they've taken them all away. So, my ROT account has been abandoned for a while.
Good job I set another one up - but no politics, no education - just my OU and local history stuff.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
My mate.Money was £2.50.
https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/ ... -1-9453167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.derbyshiretimes.co.uk/news/ ... -1-9453167" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
(Walking home from work)
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2 ... n-inedible" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Fruit and veg used in scheme for English schools 'often inedible'
Fruit and veg used in scheme for English schools 'often inedible'
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Might work, but based on selected conversations (well one actually, but probably no less representative than one of Theresa May's Knockees.) it would probably have to be Boris Johnson doing the Mea Culpa thing, so this might be a problem.frog222 wrote: ...
The answer is that somehow parliament and the nation have to come to terms with the fact that the former fucked up in 2015, by overwhelmingly voting for the referendum at all.
Mea culpa, sackcloth and ashes, confessing, accepting responsibility, reparations ?
It's FAR FAR beyond a party matter . The institution failed , through lazy thinking, or actually ... not thinking at all. A lack of imagination all round.
I like reparations idea, Brexit voters would need something to placate them, don't know what though.
I can't see the Queen intervening going down well, though might liven things up a bit ..
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
That's OK then, nothing to worry about there.HindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-p ... -the-union
PM promises deal to strengthen the Union
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... e-reversed" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"European court to rule on whether article 50 can be reversed
Judges to decide if UK can stop Brexit without consent of 27 other EU member states"
One of Joly Maugham's, not clear when verdict will be known.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"European court to rule on whether article 50 can be reversed
Judges to decide if UK can stop Brexit without consent of 27 other EU member states"
One of Joly Maugham's, not clear when verdict will be known.
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"Brexit: Government admits UK could attempt to unilaterally revoke Article 50 if MPs want to"
"Brexit: Government admits UK could attempt to unilaterally revoke Article 50 if MPs want to"
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
It's all crazy stuff TBG, but we are in crazy timestinybgoat wrote:Might work, but based on selected conversations (well one actually, but probably no less representative than one of Theresa May's Knockees.) it would probably have to be Boris Johnson doing the Mea Culpa thing, so this might be a problem.frog222 wrote: ...
The answer is that somehow parliament and the nation have to come to terms with the fact that the former fucked up in 2015, by overwhelmingly voting for the referendum at all.
Mea culpa, sackcloth and ashes, confessing, accepting responsibility, reparations ?
It's FAR FAR beyond a party matter . The institution failed , through lazy thinking, or actually ... not thinking at all. A lack of imagination all round.
I like reparations idea, Brexit voters would need something to placate them, don't know what though.
I can't see the Queen intervening going down well, though might liven things up a bit ..
I'd actually already thought of the abominable Boris doing an about-turn, recently when he was quiet for a few days, but then the bugger wrote again in the DT !
If only he'd done it, he'd go down in History ... in a good way for a change .
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Well, that is potentially significant surely?tinybgoat wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp
"Brexit: Government admits UK could attempt to unilaterally revoke Article 50 if MPs want to"
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Confess I got lost in the legalese, but is the vital thing "attempt" ?AnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, that is potentially significant surely?tinybgoat wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp
"Brexit: Government admits UK could attempt to unilaterally revoke Article 50 if MPs want to"
Liked this at the LT --
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
On a wing and much prayer .
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
I think so, there's an article on conservativehomeAnatolyKasparov wrote:Well, that is potentially significant surely?tinybgoat wrote:https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.indepe ... html%3famp
"Brexit: Government admits UK could attempt to unilaterally revoke Article 50 if MPs want to"
"Fact-checking the dubious Withdrawal Agreement's arguments being put to MPs"
https://www.conservativehome.com/platfo ... o-mps.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
which discounts the possibility of revoking article 50.
It makes the “If you vote down the deal we will stay in the EU because there is no majority for No Deal.” claim a bit more valid, in that it would be possible for parliament to try and revoke article 50.
and weakens the “If you vote down the deal we will end up with No Deal.” argument
So it could influence how mps vote, although might help to know the result of the court case first.
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report)—Robert Mueller’s announcement that he would be offering Cyber Monday plea deals touched off hysteria among disgraced Trump associates desperate for the chance to score a drastically reduced sentence.
Moments after the office of the special counsel went live with its Cyber Monday Web site, Sing4Bob.com, thousands of Trump cronies flooded it with traffic, causing the site to briefly crash.
Harland Dorrinson, the member of Mueller’s team who masterminded the Cyber Monday sale, said that the special counsel was offering a limited number of “prison doorbusters,” with sentences up to seventy-five per cent off.
“I’m not surprised that people are going crazy for these bargains,” Dorrinson said. “Otherwise, you could go to trial and face one of those Obama judges.”
He said that Mueller’s Cyber Monday sale was benefitting from a piece of fortuitous timing, since it was being held on the same day that the former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos was scheduled to report to prison for a two-week sentence.
“Everyone who goes on the site is looking for a Papadopoulos special,” he said. “Those were all gone in the first five minutes.”
Moments after the office of the special counsel went live with its Cyber Monday Web site, Sing4Bob.com, thousands of Trump cronies flooded it with traffic, causing the site to briefly crash.
Harland Dorrinson, the member of Mueller’s team who masterminded the Cyber Monday sale, said that the special counsel was offering a limited number of “prison doorbusters,” with sentences up to seventy-five per cent off.
“I’m not surprised that people are going crazy for these bargains,” Dorrinson said. “Otherwise, you could go to trial and face one of those Obama judges.”
He said that Mueller’s Cyber Monday sale was benefitting from a piece of fortuitous timing, since it was being held on the same day that the former Trump campaign adviser George Papadopoulos was scheduled to report to prison for a two-week sentence.
“Everyone who goes on the site is looking for a Papadopoulos special,” he said. “Those were all gone in the first five minutes.”
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
This is marvellous...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Daily Mash is on good form today
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
I think you get to vote on the dancing programme? Not sure about the "I'll Do Anything if the Money's Right and it Panders to My Exhibitionist Streak" one.adam wrote:Priorities, priorities...
Downing Street’s desire for a peak slot may come against the brutal reality of TV schedules. The prime minister’s team want the largest possible audience for such a debate, but the only logistically possible Sunday night that could work is 9 December, which could bring its own problems if they wish to appear on one of the biggest terrestrial channels. That evening, BBC One is set to show Countryfile, the season finales of Doctor Who and David Attenborough’s Dynasties, plus Strictly Come Dancing and a new drama by Jimmy McGovern. Meanwhile, ITV will be showing the final of I’m a Celebrity … Get Me Out of Here. It is unlikely that a sceptical audience settling down for Sunday night viewing would welcome any of the shows being interrupted or delayed, even for a political debate that could shape the future of Britain.
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
I knew of the use of the Azores as a staging post, but not how it came about ; a fascinating bit of history. So BoJo didn't even use Wiki !RogerOThornhill wrote:This is marvellous...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_ ... rld_War_II" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Apologies -
Good morfternoon.
Good morfternoon.
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
I enjoyed this one from a friend of yours --AnatolyKasparov wrote:Daily Mash is on good form today
" Corbyn’s ideal outcome would probably be to get Brexit with none of the blame for Brexit. So the Labour leadership has circled over May’s government like vultures, watching a wounded creature crawl across an arid plain. There are worse strategies. Scavenging is an effective evolutionary model, albeit not an inspiring one. "
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... -hurricane" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I haven't the foggiest prediction for the ENGLISH political parties in the current shitstorm ... while noting that the previous government here was Socialist , and then plummeted --
" Hamon finished 5th in the subsequent Presidential election, with 6.36% of the vote. In the 2017 legislative election that followed the election of President Emmanuel Macron, the Socialist party dropped from 280 to 30 seats in the National Assembly, leaving it in 4th place in terms of seats, and with 7.44% of the 1st round vote. "
Differences in culture, FPTP etc , and lots of plotting going on too !
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/wome ... -27fp2ngq6" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Women take government to court over universal credit
" about £500 worse off a year under the work allowance system,"
"making work pay",was always nonsense of course as was the "replicate the World of work"
Women take government to court over universal credit
" about £500 worse off a year under the work allowance system,"
"making work pay",was always nonsense of course as was the "replicate the World of work"
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
I know let's design a system according to the minority of situations in our imaginary World.Nothing could possibly go wrong.
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
One's Parliament, shurely?frog222 wrote:Good work TBG, gnawing away there !tinybgoat wrote:https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... xit-plan-b
"Ministers consider backing ‘Norway plus’ as Brexit plan B"
This would still lead to division between those wanting to stay in it for a short period and then push for a trade deal, those wanting to move back to EU membership etc.
(and ignores Efta members being against temporary membership).
Have tried to decipher @Frog222 clues, went through various possible resignations (Queen, Mark Carney, Hammond) and decided on Gove sticking the boot in?
This is just a first stab at defining where it went wrong.
The answer is that somehow parliament and the nation have to come to terms with the fact that the former fucked up in 2015, by overwhelmingly voting for the referendum at all.
Mea culpa, sackcloth and ashes, confessing, accepting responsibility, reparations ?
It's FAR FAR beyond a party matter . The institution failed , through lazy thinking, or actually ... not thinking at all. A lack of imagination all round.
They are all in it together (to coin a phrase) and misled themselves, and the whole UK .
EX : Imagine taking the MP's one by one, and asking them if they knew in 2015 that a Leave vote automatically meant the EMA leaving London ? YES/NO.
One scenario could be a significant MP confessing their own mistake and proving to the rest of them where collectively they had gone wrong in bypassing the representative nature of the UK system . In their heart of hearts, somewhere(!), most of them must know that, surely ?
Geoffrey Howe's speech to Thatcher, Charles Kennedy on Iraq, very much alone, https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/ir ... 50811.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Robin Cook's resignation speech, and more from the May 1940 speeches on the Narvik débacle back through history , there have been occasions where MP's made a difference.
And truth was told .
Parliament failed the people by promising something that just could not exist, a possibility of solving today's undoubted problems by a return to a largely mythical past of glorious independence.
----------------------------------------------
PS I thought the Queen intervening in some way was rather good too ;
Remember her asking the economists in 2008 " WHY didn't YOU see it coming ?"
( Meaning "What bloody use are you !)
Just imagine a speech to the Nation :
" I'm sorry People, but our/your parliament hasbeen Very Sillymade a mistake ... " cont p92
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Thauma 4.55 --
I thought of that but these are desperate times and One must appeal to One's People
I thought of that but these are desperate times and One must appeal to One's People
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Evening, everyone
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
oh no god help us all, cJA weptHindleA wrote:https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-p ... -the-union
PM promises deal to strengthen the Union
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
A good Twitter moment for me - you need to read to the bottom
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Tim Walker was a Tory cheerleader throughout the 2010-15 parliament, strange how totally that has been "memory holed".
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Good work, PfYPaulfromYorkshire wrote:A good Twitter moment for me - you need to read to the bottom
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Tory government is no friend to most people and the nation they're supposed to represent.
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
I'm going to read some LeGuin
Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
That's better than Brexitology , there's weeks and months more of that, perhaps years, unless we're very lucky .citizenJA wrote:I'm going to read some LeGuin
Goodnight, everyone love,cJA
Re: Tuesday 27th November 2018
Everyone should watch The Mash Report on iPlayer if you don't already see it.Universal Credit 'not as bad as some people say' announces survivor.
I still believe in a town called Hope