Tuesday 19th February 2019
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Tuesday 19th February 2019
Morning all.
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/201 ... ew-clothes" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Don't feed the monster!' The people who have stopped buying new clothes
I didn't realise people had started.I still run in gear circa 1990,that was bought for me.
Don't feed the monster!' The people who have stopped buying new clothes
I didn't realise people had started.I still run in gear circa 1990,that was bought for me.
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
I'm thinner now.I seem to revert all the usual temporal changes.
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Keep for "occasion",quick wash,beyond zillions of puncture holes (pins for number)good as new.
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Also more hair,I'm down to twice a year barber infliction.
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Mean,mo?
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Would say less likely to vote Tory rather than more but it was minus infinity.
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
On Honda - nothing to do with the UK leaving the EU, just global conditions and the fact that the new trade deal means that we can trade tariff free to the EU directly from Japan.
So they're leaving - and Japanese investment in the UK must as a generalisation be very much at risk - not because we're leaving the EU, but because our conservative (and probably also Vince and the Coalition) government have negotiated a trade deal that makes it easier for Japanese companies to end that investment here and trade from 'home'.
So they're leaving - and Japanese investment in the UK must as a generalisation be very much at risk - not because we're leaving the EU, but because our conservative (and probably also Vince and the Coalition) government have negotiated a trade deal that makes it easier for Japanese companies to end that investment here and trade from 'home'.
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
And this is interesting - Hunt saying something that actually has a certain amount of political nouse for a change
S Club Seven leaving is being used to argue, vaguely sensibly, that all of this has to lean right. Which means, of course, that he's arguing that we have to leave without a withdrawal agreement.Jeremy Hunt has seized on Labour’s split, claiming to European foreign ministers it proved that only concessions to win round Conservative rightwingers will get the Brexit deal through the Commons.
I still believe in a town called Hope
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Not sure I follow *unt's argument tbh.
I think the EU recognises something that's not been taken on board here so far, that negotiation of the future relationship is likely to outlive one or possibly two UK governments. They want to get both parties on board so the negotiations don't get sent back to square one halfway through, at once a perfectly reasonable position and hopelessly unrealistic.
I think the EU recognises something that's not been taken on board here so far, that negotiation of the future relationship is likely to outlive one or possibly two UK governments. They want to get both parties on board so the negotiations don't get sent back to square one halfway through, at once a perfectly reasonable position and hopelessly unrealistic.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
I think Hunt's argument is an absurd no hope argument to the EU but I entirely understand why he's making it to a domestic audience. "Look, there has been some significant momentum here for Labour's proposals but this must surely be the end of that."gilsey wrote:Not sure I follow *unt's argument tbh.
I think the EU recognises something that's not been taken on board here so far, that negotiation of the future relationship is likely to outlive one or possibly two UK governments. They want to get both parties on board so the negotiations don't get sent back to square one halfway through, at once a perfectly reasonable position and hopelessly unrealistic.
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Heh, that really is one of the most meaningless questions in pollingHindleA wrote:Would say less likely to vote Tory rather than more but it was minus infinity.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Good-afternoon, everyone
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Chuka apparently asked this morning what part of Labour's last GE manifesto he disagreed with, was unable to answer.
Draw your own conclusions from that, I know I have.
Draw your own conclusions from that, I know I have.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
I can't fathom what they're thinking. What are they hoping to accomplish leaving their party at this time? That's a genuine question.AnatolyKasparov wrote:Chuka apparently asked this morning what part of Labour's last GE manifesto he disagreed with, was unable to answer.
Draw your own conclusions from that, I know I have.
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
In the early days of the Corbyn leadership there were statements from various branches of the Labour party that everyone within the party at least shared the basic goal of reducing inequality.
Reducing inequality is not the basic goal of your average Tory and this is reflected in the outcomes of Tory rule on a daily basis.
I don't particularly like Corbyn, I find him difficult to relate to and am unconvinced by his priorities and methods. He is an uninspiring speaker and makes basic factual mistakes. However, he does want to reduce inequality, so is therefore far more likely to achieve this goal than someone who doesn't, eg all Tories.
Therefore, if you have a goal of reducing inequality, why is it not possible to remain in a party lead by someone who shares that goal? All the differences over means and method are insignificant against a Tory party that doesn't share that basic goal.
Not to mention, Corbyn will have stepped down in a few years. As long as the Labour Party continues to strive for greater equality it will remain the party it has always been. The obsession with one individual will pass, it has to, as Corbyn can't be leader forever. As such it's hard to see what the Independent Group are trying to achieve. If it's about Brexit that would at least make some sense as Brexit isnt going to wait for a few years, but in what way might they want or could affect Brexit by breaking away? Darn'd if I know.
Strange times.
Reducing inequality is not the basic goal of your average Tory and this is reflected in the outcomes of Tory rule on a daily basis.
I don't particularly like Corbyn, I find him difficult to relate to and am unconvinced by his priorities and methods. He is an uninspiring speaker and makes basic factual mistakes. However, he does want to reduce inequality, so is therefore far more likely to achieve this goal than someone who doesn't, eg all Tories.
Therefore, if you have a goal of reducing inequality, why is it not possible to remain in a party lead by someone who shares that goal? All the differences over means and method are insignificant against a Tory party that doesn't share that basic goal.
Not to mention, Corbyn will have stepped down in a few years. As long as the Labour Party continues to strive for greater equality it will remain the party it has always been. The obsession with one individual will pass, it has to, as Corbyn can't be leader forever. As such it's hard to see what the Independent Group are trying to achieve. If it's about Brexit that would at least make some sense as Brexit isnt going to wait for a few years, but in what way might they want or could affect Brexit by breaking away? Darn'd if I know.
Strange times.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Great post Willow
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
That is the point, the likes of Umunna/Leslie/Smith/Shuker are basically centre-right politicians who never cared about inequality and only ever used "Labour" as a flag of convenience. There aren't many others like them in the PLP (though there are a relative handful) so I don't expect further *major* defections.
(those four were named deliberately, Coffey and Gapes are former lefties who have become right wing in old age whilst Berger's case is sui generis as we sadly know)
(those four were named deliberately, Coffey and Gapes are former lefties who have become right wing in old age whilst Berger's case is sui generis as we sadly know)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
AgreedPaulfromYorkshire wrote:Great post Willow
the essence
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
I look around and wonder what are government's intentions?
They've done nothing but intentionally screw around while the leave date comes closer.
They've done nothing but intentionally screw around while the leave date comes closer.
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
TIG is big on meritocracy, which is not at all the same thing as reducing inequality.
The barriers of poverty, prejudice and discrimination facing individuals should be removed and advancement occur on the basis of merit, with inequalities reduced through the extension of opportunity, giving individuals the skills and means to open new doors and fulfil their ambitions.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Yes, "meritocracy" is the essence of centre-right (or indeed that dread term "neoliberal") politics.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
"Social mobility" is just another term for the American Dream. Inequality is supposedly ok because everyone has the same opportunity to make it to the top. Except they don't and even if they did everyone can't all be at the top at the same time so for every winer there will always be many losers and I don't see how switching a few winners and losers around makes it ok for lots of people to be stranded in crap, poorly paid work.gilsey wrote:TIG is big on meritocracy, which is not at all the same thing as reducing inequality.
The barriers of poverty, prejudice and discrimination facing individuals should be removed and advancement occur on the basis of merit, with inequalities reduced through the extension of opportunity, giving individuals the skills and means to open new doors and fulfil their ambitions.
And that's before you even get to those who can't work for whatever reason.
It was this sort of stuff that I disliked from Liz Kendall.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
It actually evolved from some musings I had in response to this tweet:PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Great post Willow
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;Josh Lowe
@JeyyLowe
·
5h
Been thinking about that line in the Independent Group announcement, about "policies that are evidence-based, not based on ideology", and how crazy it is that so many people whove worked in some cases high up in our political system think that such a clear distinction is possible
I'm very keen on evidence-based policy making myself and can get frustrated with obsessions with delivery methods rather than actual goals, but I don't equate "ideology" with delivery methods as such which is why I tend to agree with the tweet. Ideology is what informs goals, surely. What could be more ideological than pursuing the redistribution of wealth in a quest for greater equality? Corbyn does state goals - such as affordable, reliable public transport - as well as delivery methods - renationalisation. I don't necessarily think renationlisation is the only way to achieve the goal, but I do know that having a goal to achieve affordable public transport is pretty essential if it is to happen
So a fondness for evidence-based policy making is all very well, but doesn't mean very much without the context of what you want to achieve with it. I expect the Tories had lots of evidence to show shareholders could make lots of money through the privatisation of British Rail. It doesn't mean I'd vote for them!
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
It's the essence of Piketty`s work isn't it? You have to force significant redistribution to have a successful society.
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Goodnight, everyone
love,
cJA
love,
cJA
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Re the removal of citizenship...
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If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
It's the young woman's mother who is meant to be the legal way in for this rather dubious sounding move?RogerOThornhill wrote:Re the removal of citizenship...
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Last edited by PorFavor on Tue 19 Feb, 2019 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Edited to add this link -PorFavor wrote:It's the young woman's mother who is meant to be the legal way in for this rather dubious sounding move?RogerOThornhill wrote:Re the removal of citizenship...
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ip-revoked
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
Bumboils.
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
But the girl is now 19 and therefore not legally classed as a child. Therefore what her mother's nationality status is, is of no relevance surely.PorFavor wrote:Edited to add this link -PorFavor wrote:It's the young woman's mother who is meant to be the legal way in for this rather dubious sounding move?RogerOThornhill wrote:Re the removal of citizenship...
" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ip-revoked
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
And Joan Ryan becomes the 8th...
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
How to pay for the Green New Deal
think of it this way. No one in a 100 years time who suffers the catastrophic and (for them) irreversible impact of climate change is going to console themselves that at least they did not increase the national debt. Humanity will not come to an end if we double debt to GDP ratios, but it could come to an end if we fail to combat climate change.
All this means that the question of how a measure is financed should never prevent that measure being implemented if it has a reasonable chance of reducing climate change. The whole point of the Green New Deal is that measures should be judged on how effective they will be at achieving their goal, and not on whether they can be afforded. Funding through taxes should be the first option because the polluter should pay, but if this is not politically possible then government debt should increase.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
RogerOThornhill wrote:And Joan Ryan becomes the 8th...
On 6 September 2018, her Constituency Labour Party narrowly passed a motion of no confidence in her
I still believe in a town called Hope
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
^^^
A mere coincidence I'm sure...
A mere coincidence I'm sure...
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Re: Tuesday 19th February 2019
As I'm not a member. can someone with knowledge of how the Labour Party works tell me precisely what powers the Leader has?
Can they, for example, suspend members or expel them or is that down to the Party chairman and NEC?
I only ask as there's a lot of people saying "The leader ought to do x,y,x" and I;m not sure whether he has actually got the power to do so.
Can they, for example, suspend members or expel them or is that down to the Party chairman and NEC?
I only ask as there's a lot of people saying "The leader ought to do x,y,x" and I;m not sure whether he has actually got the power to do so.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.