Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
Wednesday 19th February 2020
Morning all.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
I'm no expert on immigration....
But I'm singularly unimpressed by centrist Labour types criticising the new policy on the grounds it will be bad for British industry (even if it will).
Trouble is Patel's story sounds rather good and plays right into the Brexit narrative. Even though it won't work out that way. So well done Diane Abbott for taking a more principled approach.
I still think the very worst thing about the EU is the exploitation of freedom of movement by big business. Moving is not much of a freedom if you have to do it to feed your kids.
But I'm singularly unimpressed by centrist Labour types criticising the new policy on the grounds it will be bad for British industry (even if it will).
Trouble is Patel's story sounds rather good and plays right into the Brexit narrative. Even though it won't work out that way. So well done Diane Abbott for taking a more principled approach.
I still think the very worst thing about the EU is the exploitation of freedom of movement by big business. Moving is not much of a freedom if you have to do it to feed your kids.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
If you are unskilled why do you need to be trained?
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Can't see it working without further exemptions,eg. social care without (further) pernicious implications."Economic inactivity"includes family carers of course,I humbly suggest that the "hiding unemployment" has bitten the left on the arse (again)with the appropriation by Government in essence of that is the case get them to work.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Certainly not aided by carers organisations and the "gave up job"thing.
Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
When a poor country first joins the EU, people move to look for better work but the other side of the EU is that the joining country gets to enjoy the benefits of belonging to a larger bloc, it benefits from investment and eventually the factories and the jobs. Eventually people won't want to move as local jobs start to reflect the pay and conditions of the rest of the bloc.PaulfromYorkshire wrote:I'm no expert on immigration....
But I'm singularly unimpressed by centrist Labour types criticising the new policy on the grounds it will be bad for British industry (even if it will).
Trouble is Patel's story sounds rather good and plays right into the Brexit narrative. Even though it won't work out that way. So well done Diane Abbott for taking a more principled approach.
I still think the very worst thing about the EU is the exploitation of freedom of movement by big business. Moving is not much of a freedom if you have to do it to feed your kids.
You might just as well say people shouldn't be moving from Cornwall or Blackpool to take up low paid jobs in London, but they do. It's the same phenomenon, just on a smaller scale. The answer is to regulate businesses to enforce decent working conditions everywhere, provide investment incentives for areas where there are fewer jobs and tighten up rules to prevent corporations from avoiding tax, which is what the EU is increasingly doing and, seemingly, why the Tories are so desperate to leave.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Priti Patel says Boris Johnson isn't a racist and that Dave's comments at the Brits were just a "generalisation".
Yes Priti, Dave took the isolated racist comments that Johnson has made over the years and generalised them into the accusation that he's a racist.
Perhaps she didn't mean to say generalisation?
Yes Priti, Dave took the isolated racist comments that Johnson has made over the years and generalised them into the accusation that he's a racist.
Perhaps she didn't mean to say generalisation?
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
I may seem inconsistent with also the right to (also)work thing but I see parallels/connections with a similar appropriation of a woman's right to work instead of being at home in the stick to beat those that choose not to and the relative credence/respect/value/worth placed on them.
Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
People will be forced to take low paid insecure work or lose their benefits - at least that's probably the idea. The reality will more likely be recession as freedom of movement has been a prime driver of growth over recent years. Either businesses will finally invest in technology with the accompanying increase in productivity or our whole shabby little house of cards will finally collapse as the government runs out of working age people it can coerce into low paid insecure work.HindleA wrote:Can't see it working without further exemptions,eg. social care without (further) pernicious implications."Economic inactivity"includes family carers of course,I humbly suggest that the "hiding unemployment" has bitten the left on the arse (again)with the appropriation by Government in essence of that is the case get them to work.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
The swapping of one stereotype, the housewife and stay at home mother, for another stereotype, the childcare using working mum, has led to child benefits being increasingly replaced with childcare and mothers as restricted in their life choices as ever.HindleA wrote:I may seem inconsistent with also the right to (also)work thing but I see parallels/connections with a similar appropriation of a woman's right to work instead of being at home in the stick to beat those that choose not to and the relative credence/respect/value/worth placed on them.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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An apple is an orange
An apple is an orange
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
The change from "the danger to children from absentee mothers'"to the "danger to children from non-working mothers' is indeed remarkable.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
This might be where some sort of "national service" for (especially) young people might come in - make *them* pick vegetables or wipe the gammons a***es.Willow904 wrote:People will be forced to take low paid insecure work or lose their benefits - at least that's probably the idea. The reality will more likely be recession as freedom of movement has been a prime driver of growth over recent years. Either businesses will finally invest in technology with the accompanying increase in productivity or our whole shabby little house of cards will finally collapse as the government runs out of working age people it can coerce into low paid insecure work.HindleA wrote:Can't see it working without further exemptions,eg. social care without (further) pernicious implications."Economic inactivity"includes family carers of course,I humbly suggest that the "hiding unemployment" has bitten the left on the arse (again)with the appropriation by Government in essence of that is the case get them to work.
Can't see that going wrong at all, can you?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Good afternoon, everyone.
Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Interesting. Toby Young uses the example of Downs Syndrome to suggest it's acceptable to move the debate further, when yesterday I used the example of Downs Syndrome to suggest we have possibly moved too far already.
As for free speech, it cuts both ways. While Sabisky (and Young) is entitled to voice his views, people are entitled to disagree with his views, point out why he is wrong and express concern that his views could have a negative and unwelcome effect if allowed to help shape government policy.
We're back to the whining indignation of the privileged egotist complaining that their uninformed minority opinion isn't being given equal weight to the overwhelming opinion of the expert majority.
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Oh, really...[UK home secretary Priti Patel] said 8 million people between the ages of 16 and 64 were “economically inactive” and could be given the skills to do jobs in sectors where there were shortages as a result of the new points-based system.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... riti-patel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Does Patel know if those classified 'economically inactive' have the time, ability or desire to fill those positions?
Tory-led governments since 2010 go from bad to worse. The ugliest now has a majority and years of leadership ahead of them if nothing extraordinary or unprecedented turns up turfing them out. There's nothing on the horizon giving me hope for better things. I'm calm and concerned for us all.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Exactly this - its not "free speech" that they want (they already have that, whatever some pretend) its UNCHALLENGED speech.Willow904 wrote:Interesting. Toby Young uses the example of Downs Syndrome to suggest it's acceptable to move the debate further, when yesterday I used the example of Downs Syndrome to suggest we have possibly moved too far already.
As for free speech, it cuts both ways. While Sabisky (and Young) is entitled to voice his views, people are entitled to disagree with his views, point out why he is wrong and express concern that his views could have a negative and unwelcome effect if allowed to help shape government policy.
We're back to the whining indignation of the privileged egotist complaining that their uninformed minority opinion isn't being given equal weight to the overwhelming opinion of the expert majority.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
I expect there will be ad hoc "exceptions" made to these new immigration rules for certain sectors.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
citizenJA wrote:Oh, really...[UK home secretary Priti Patel] said 8 million people between the ages of 16 and 64 were “economically inactive” and could be given the skills to do jobs in sectors where there were shortages as a result of the new points-based system.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... riti-patel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Does Patel know if those classified 'economically inactive' have the time, ability or desire to fill those positions?
Tory-led governments since 2010 go from bad to worse. The ugliest now has a majority and years of leadership ahead of them if nothing extraordinary or unprecedented turns up turfing them out. There's nothing on the horizon giving me hope for better things. I'm calm and concerned for us all.
There are very good reasons,as to why the distinction with being counted as unemployed,not least the various reasons as to why so classified,the only real economically inactive are the deceased.Reducing the numbers,is not a good thing in itself ,I note the reduction in family carers,now that in a parallel universe where the adequate support is in place with no harmful consequences for those that wish to continue /return to work and those they help;the reality is of course the opposite.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Getting a bit tired at Lisa Nandy's persistent hints that Labour members and even voters are a bit rubbish.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Goodnight, everyone.
love,
cJA
love,
cJA
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
To spare Cja's blushesI won't enquire as to classification of activity,economic or otherwise.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
They do count the number that say they "want to work",of course that is wholly different to providing the necessary support,changing employers attitude and financial means and the actual feasability,of course that has been misappropriated in Marxistic style as a reservoir of labour.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Akin and related to the "missing million"
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
"RIP Pop Smoke" trending on Twitter - no, me neither.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Moral maze on gender identity at 8pm.Radio4
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Reducing child benefits and replacing them with free childcare pushes stay at home parents back to work. Extending the qualifying period for state pension discourages early retirement. Removing grants and upping tuition fees forces students to work part time. And the conditionality of universal credit seeks (unsuccessfully) to scare ill and disabled people back to working fitness.HindleA wrote:citizenJA wrote:Oh, really...[UK home secretary Priti Patel] said 8 million people between the ages of 16 and 64 were “economically inactive” and could be given the skills to do jobs in sectors where there were shortages as a result of the new points-based system.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... riti-patel" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Does Patel know if those classified 'economically inactive' have the time, ability or desire to fill those positions?
Tory-led governments since 2010 go from bad to worse. The ugliest now has a majority and years of leadership ahead of them if nothing extraordinary or unprecedented turns up turfing them out. There's nothing on the horizon giving me hope for better things. I'm calm and concerned for us all.
There are very good reasons,as to why the distinction with being counted as unemployed,not least the various reasons as to why so classified,the only real economically inactive are the deceased.Reducing the numbers,is not a good thing in itself ,I note the reduction in family carers,now that in a parallel universe where the adequate support is in place with no harmful consequences for those that wish to continue /return to work and those they help;the reality is of course the opposite.
Except some parents can comfortably afford to stay at home to look after the kids, some students are happily looked after by comfortably off parents, people often retire early because they can afford to and many people are genuinely too unwell or disabled to work, or at least fill the jobs actually available. And this has been the case for a long time with numbers of economically inactive remaining remarkably stable somewhere between 7.5 and 10 million since 1971. Is Patel's plan really to reduce better off households to the level of poverty required to force all working age occupants into work? And while she's doing this to better off households, what on earth is she going to do to the rest of us?!
"Fall seven times, get up eight" - Japanese proverb
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
As at 13 February 2020, the Department has spent £215,846.89 on legal costs defending and appealing the cases in relation to people formerly in receipt of Severe Disability premium that have transferred to Universal Credit.
And they ain't finished yet.Oh so brave protectors of the vulnerable and public purse.
And they ain't finished yet.Oh so brave protectors of the vulnerable and public purse.
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
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Re: Wednesday 19th February 2020
Evening all.
Good day in the library and a trip to Chelmsford planned for the Essex Record Office tomorrow.
so...I'm economically inactive* as I am neither (i) working or (ii) signed on looking for work.
How does Priti Patel think she will contact me to offer me work that I don't actually want or need?
* although as I'm spending money and therefore part of the economy, that's not strictly true...
Good day in the library and a trip to Chelmsford planned for the Essex Record Office tomorrow.
so...I'm economically inactive* as I am neither (i) working or (ii) signed on looking for work.
How does Priti Patel think she will contact me to offer me work that I don't actually want or need?
* although as I'm spending money and therefore part of the economy, that's not strictly true...
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.