Wednesday16th September 2015
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Welcome to FTN. New posters are welcome to join the conversation. You can follow us on Twitter @FlythenestHaven You are responsible for the content you post. This is a public forum. Treat it as if you are speaking in a crowded room. Site admin and Moderators are volunteers who will respond as quickly as they are able to when made aware of any complaints. Please do not post copyrighted material without the original authors permission.
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- Chief Whip
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
In the last two two days we have had union rights attacked and the tax credit disgrace passed in Parliament. But the burning issue by the doorstepping hacks was the bloody anthem.
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
So the whole Corbyn frenzy was to help cover a rise in unemployment ?
Quelle surprise.
Quelle surprise.
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Sam Macrory @sammacrory 1m1 minute ago
39,866 questions now submitted to Corbyn ahead of #pmqs. Not sure how he chooses 6, but one shad cab member has said to expect a surprise...
Working on the wild side.
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- First Secretary of State
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
New headline.
Corbyn Queen Snub Increases Unemployment.
Pfft, who am I kidding, as if unemployment figures are the main news.
Corbyn Queen Snub Increases Unemployment.
Pfft, who am I kidding, as if unemployment figures are the main news.
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Sorry - but just so you can gird yourselves for the potential next instalment ...
Michael Crick @MichaelLCrick 16m16 minutes ago
BBC cameraman in hospital last night with neck and face injuries after Corbyn aide allegedly assaulted him as Corbyn left his home yesterday
Working on the wild side.
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- Chief Whip
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Anthem.
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
[youtube]BCS_MwkWzes[/youtube]
There is a crack, a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in.
[youtube]BCS_MwkWzes[/youtube]
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Sorry, am not thanking Rob out of egotism, but because it is cheering to know I'm not alone in feeling that.
See you all later, to hear just how terrible Corbyn was at PMQs
See you all later, to hear just how terrible Corbyn was at PMQs
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- Speaker of the House
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Well he could give Ham Face a printed list, rr2, then ask, "So have you got answers to this lot, Dave?" Please note that I have suggested a suitable modicum of decorum and not the use of unparliamentary language.rebeccariots2 wrote:Sam Macrory @sammacrory 1m1 minute ago
39,866 questions now submitted to Corbyn ahead of #pmqs. Not sure how he chooses 6, but one shad cab member has said to expect a surprise...
Edit: pluralise answers... and correct pluralise.
Last edited by utopiandreams on Wed 16 Sep, 2015 11:46 am, edited 2 times in total.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
- rebeccariots2
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
I can't even make myself get angry or outraged about this ... it's just so pathetic.AndrewSparrow retweeted
Luke Pollard @LukePollard 2h2 hours ago
Pretty desperate stuff from media over Corbyn and sandwiches. Sadly the truth won't be shared and the slur may stick http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/8140678" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
Working on the wild side.
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
The Rugby World Cup starts on Friday. Let's hope all the players, and every single person in the stadia sings the anthem. Oh, and those watching on the tv too.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
This is absolutely ridiculous.
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- Speaker of the House
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Bloody hell, rr2, it reminds me of that old conundrum, 'Why does your toast always land buttered-side down?' In this case since we're talking sandwiches and probably the vegetarian option, 'Why can we always count on someone to spill the beans?'rebeccariots2 wrote:I can't even make myself get angry or outraged about this ... it's just so pathetic.AndrewSparrow retweeted
Luke Pollard @LukePollard 2h2 hours ago
Pretty desperate stuff from media over Corbyn and sandwiches. Sadly the truth won't be shared and the slur may stick http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/8140678" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; …
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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- Speaker of the House
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
@WelshIan
Now, now, WelshIan, whatever next? You'll be expecting we stand to attention after a cinema screening. That would never do.
Now, now, WelshIan, whatever next? You'll be expecting we stand to attention after a cinema screening. That would never do.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
- Swarthlander
- Committee Chair
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Radio 5 have just had an Alf Garnet phone in.
Some folk really need help.
Good morning.
Some folk really need help.
Good morning.
"A lack of compassion is as vulgar as an excess of tears"
- danesclose
- Whip
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Morning all. Morning Toby. Perhaps Jeremy had this in mind:TobyLatimer wrote:I'm old enough to remember the controversy around Jimi Hendrix destroying the Star Spangled Banner at Yasgur's Farm (Woodstock) in a protest against Vietnam.
Maybe Jeremy should have taken along a Strat (or a ukulele) and played it with his teeth before setting it on fire.
Anything worth doing is worth overdoing.
[youtube]sjzZh6-h9fM[/youtube]
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Proud to be part of The Indecent Minority.
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
He was on Newsnight last night YahYah "discussing" the National Anthem issue .Mind you he could not get much of a word in between Evan Davies and Jenni Russel (introduced as a labour supporting Times journalist!) showing the MSM faux outrage at such a horrendous calumny.yahyah wrote:I see Monbiot was tweeting that he'd be available in the short term for the media as a pro-Corbyn commentator. Bet he's not had a call.
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- First Secretary of State
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Has he resigned yet?
But seriously, all the justified outrage of this squirrel is diverting from the real issues and news discussions.
What are people's thoughts on what he should be asking?
But seriously, all the justified outrage of this squirrel is diverting from the real issues and news discussions.
What are people's thoughts on what he should be asking?
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Owen Smith said the same on Newsnight.TobyLatimer wrote:WTF ? Kate Green claims opposing the welfare cap is not a Labour policy & they're just opposing the cuts
Tying themselves in knots over it, why bother? Election's not till 2020.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Two officers not singing the anthem standing behind Corbyn, and the woman standing next to Fallon not singing either. Anyone know who that is?
- TechnicalEphemera
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
I suspect most people who don't think Corbyn is the answer are staying away because nobody here wants to hear anything they say. FTN isn't like Guardian Trolling is Free where it is a game of battle the muppet, once you step outside the group consensus posting just consumes time and adds no value.yahyah wrote:RobertSnozers wrote:I'm not sure they would. The establishment looks after its own. The message is 'play our game or we'll destroy you'.yahyah wrote:I hope this isn't coming out waspishly, it isn't meant that way.
But I hope those anti-Corbyn FTN posters who have stayed away aren't feeling schadenfreude or smugness at the press hysteria.
It would be aimed at any Labour leader, a 'moderate' one would be getting it just as hard, but in different ways.
This isn't democracy. We are not living in a full democracy. We need to recognise that.
That's why Green and people like her should not play the establishment game.
It is also why Corbyn needs to make it explicit, show the game for what it is not kow tow to it.
It's going to be a difficult time, and I admit that if I had swung for the 'must have a female leader' or 'go for a moderate' as the siren calls strongly sang to me, it might be me saying 'he's a disaster'.
But there's a certain freedom that comes with having voted Corbyn, and being more and more impressed by his character.
Ed's dad said socialism foundered because Labour didn't fight for it in the 1950's.
Let's surely fight for it now, it may be our last chance for a generation.
I don't want to die with a 'moderate' Labour party endorsing a lot of what the Tories do but quibbling about the time table, or the exact cost of Tory policies.
As for what I think of Corbyn a few days into the job, it hasn't changed my mind but I have been shocked at how inept his media strategy is. On substance the choice of Shadow Chancellor was a strategic error, choosing your mate over somebody qualified to do it like say Ms Eagle is not a good look and won't end well. The rest of the SC (with the exception of the ever useless DA) was reasonable, getting Burnham and Benn on board a good move.
The right wing media have lost the plot, but he needs to be doing lots of TV and radio interviews right now. Get an image consultant, get a style consultant, get in his old press officer as liaison to the Labour team and sort the shambles out. If this goes on he really isn't going to last 6 months, which is not a good result as some of his stuff on austerity, on the unions, on civil liberties needs to be heard and needs to be said. Labour also needs time to adjust to the new realities and sort out a unifying (electable, anti austerity) candidate before being pitched straight into another leadership mess. He also needs a "moderate" spin doctor to explain to him what normal people may be thinking and how to talk to them and not just the Corbyn fans or the TUC. Maybe if he does that really well he might connect with voters. Sure the national anthem stuff is bollocks but it is unnecessary bollocks. Corbyn needs to slim his offer to anti Austerity, housing and making this country a just place to live (a fair shout for everybody, everybody pays taxes, no more freeloading elite), i.e. narrow the offer, and stick to that. Repeat that message for 5 years and maybe he could win in 2020.
Also sack Kate Green, I regard much of his platform as stuff he believes but doesn't really have a mandate for and that is electorally toxic (breaking Labour to bits on CND being one of these). However anti austerity and opposing benefit cuts are absolutely core and absolutely his mandate. If Green doesn't understand this why did she take the job? Concentrate on explaining why Corbyn is right to oppose them (there is an excellent economic argument to be made) not trying to find ways to carry on the old agenda.
Finally some thoughts from the wider media.
Owen Jones on why he needs a spin doctor
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... tter-media
(
Jonathan Jones (amazingly) with a very perceptive view on the Tory propaganda campaign (which is also why he is going to have to dump his CND commitment, maybe a referendum should be offered as policy - the question (does the UK wish to retain nuclear weapons and is it prepared to pay a set percentage in tax to pay for them).
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -with-legs
- particularly this bit.
And for variety Dan Hodges agreeing with Mr Snozers on our democracy (but probably very little else)This attack video tells us two things. It tells us, as does the wider Tory nervousness, that Corbyn really does have it in him to be the left’s Nigel Farage. Over the coming months and maybe years he will give Labour a bounce, make it talked about, make it cool. Everyone on Twitter will be talking about his coming victory. He will not be unseated, he will build up his movement.
And then Labour will be wiped out at the next general election. Because it does not matter how horrible and nasty and stupid this video and those that will follow it are. Unless Corbyn can prove he is a different man from the one who called terrorists “friends” and seemed sorry for Osama bin Laden on real, authentic video recordings, he will indeed by seen by the electorate as every bit as extreme as this attack ad claims.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... earth.html
Release the Guardvarks.
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Russell was one of those who liked to bash Ed from time to time as well.ScarletGas wrote:He was on Newsnight last night YahYah "discussing" the National Anthem issue .Mind you he could not get much of a word in between Evan Davies and Jenni Russel (introduced as a labour supporting Times journalist!) showing the MSM faux outrage at such a horrendous calumny.yahyah wrote:I see Monbiot was tweeting that he'd be available in the short term for the media as a pro-Corbyn commentator. Bet he's not had a call.
(including a totally fictitious tale about how he had arrived late at some shindig and then been ignored by everybody)
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
TobyLatimer wrote:See number 7 on the 'Signs of fascism' http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Toby. I've just Tweeted that...
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
I was thinking about that yesterday...If one of the women had won, no doubt there'd have also been lots of snarky comments about her appearance on top of every thing else.yahyah wrote:I hope this isn't coming out waspishly, it isn't meant that way.
But I hope those anti-Corbyn FTN posters who have stayed away aren't feeling schadenfreude or smugness at the press hysteria.
It would be aimed at any Labour leader, a 'moderate' one would be getting it just as hard, but in different ways.
I don't mind the Royals, but I have no objection to those that dislike them...We seem to have lost the meanings of 'Choice', 'It's a free country' and 'Each to his own.'
And I'm sure Corbyn's republicanism has won him as many supporters as it's lost. Quite honsetly he could be green with yellow spots and have six legs and I wouldn't care as long as he can disrupt the Tories.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
How I wish the Shadow Cabinet would make a (collective) decision not to discuss policy at all until they have had their first conference and sorted out what they are going to say. I am already sick of the conflicting statements which make it look as though Corbyn has a totally different idea from the rest of his cabinet; that may be the case, but there's no need to discuss policy when it hasn't been agreed yet.
Time to play the Tories at their own game, media-wise - they never explain properly what they're doing, they just drone on about what Labour did wrong - and I think the Labour MPs going on these shows should just say that people must wait until firm policy decisions are made.
It is up to the party as a whole to decide policy - the manifesto for the last election is what Labour campaigned on then, not necessarily what is going to be the party's plan for the next four years. For all we know, the last manifesto could end up being binned.
Meanwhile - on the subject of national anthems - Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau is FANTASTIC. And not everyone sings it, even at the rugby.
There is a Hendrix-esque version of it on YouTube by the late great Titch Gwillym, during a gig Show produced years ago; and for those of you who are of a more classical bent there is one of Paul Robeson (who is an honorary Welshman) singing it in English with full orchestra.
Time to play the Tories at their own game, media-wise - they never explain properly what they're doing, they just drone on about what Labour did wrong - and I think the Labour MPs going on these shows should just say that people must wait until firm policy decisions are made.
It is up to the party as a whole to decide policy - the manifesto for the last election is what Labour campaigned on then, not necessarily what is going to be the party's plan for the next four years. For all we know, the last manifesto could end up being binned.
Meanwhile - on the subject of national anthems - Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau is FANTASTIC. And not everyone sings it, even at the rugby.
There is a Hendrix-esque version of it on YouTube by the late great Titch Gwillym, during a gig Show produced years ago; and for those of you who are of a more classical bent there is one of Paul Robeson (who is an honorary Welshman) singing it in English with full orchestra.
"Poverty is the worst form of violence" - Mahatma Gandhi
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
@TechnicalEphemera
Thanks for speaking your mind, TE, whether we agree or not, and sometimes we do, isn't the point. Your voice is equally worthy as any other's, possibly moreso when offering a different perspective. Much appreciated.
Thanks for speaking your mind, TE, whether we agree or not, and sometimes we do, isn't the point. Your voice is equally worthy as any other's, possibly moreso when offering a different perspective. Much appreciated.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
At the very least, the awful dirge that is GSTQ doesn't have to be the de facto *English* national anthem. Jerusalem, please
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
What, ohso, you haven't already pulled his wings off, have you?ohsocynical wrote:... Quite honsetly he could be green with yellow spots and have six legs and I wouldn't care as long as he can disrupt the Tories.
It makes perfect sense in my world even if not to everybody else; bringing him down to earth. I very rarely explain, neither do I repeat in the manner of Stewart Lee. But my brother has far greater skill because his words make sense even when you do miss the joke, thereby rarely causing confusion or the offence that I do.
Behaving myself now, I wish to be serious before PMQs, the only reason I'm still here tbh.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
How I hate that song (Jerusalem). The words are fine - the tune is unbearable.AnatolyKasparov wrote:At the very least, the awful dirge that is GSTQ doesn't have to be the de facto *English* national anthem. Jerusalem, please
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Good morfternoon.
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
The new Labour leader said the public had had enough of "theatrical politics" and he would hold the government properly to account.
Mr Corbyn said: "I do not suspect it's going to be easy but then our job is to hold the government to account. Our job is to speak up for ordinary people in this
Mr Corbyn said: "I do not suspect it's going to be easy but then our job is to hold the government to account. Our job is to speak up for ordinary people in this
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Oh - and isn't Jerusalem rather England centred (if you're thinking in terms of the UK)?
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Khalid Winter @KhalidWinter 4 mins4 minutes ago
One thing #Corbyn has destroyed is any illusion of impartiality at the BBC.
One thing #Corbyn has destroyed is any illusion of impartiality at the BBC.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Good-morning, everyone.
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Whether you like him or not great line from John McDonnell.
Approached and asked for an interview JMcD asks "who are you" Reply comes "I am a Sun journalist"
JMcD answers "Come, come you cant be both"
True story allegedly.
Approached and asked for an interview JMcD asks "who are you" Reply comes "I am a Sun journalist"
JMcD answers "Come, come you cant be both"
True story allegedly.
- RogerOThornhill
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
I Vow To Thee My Country would do for me.
And a far, far better tune.
Isn't the tune to GSTQ used by other countries anyway? Let's have one that is just used by us.
And a far, far better tune.
Isn't the tune to GSTQ used by other countries anyway? Let's have one that is just used by us.
If I'm not here, then I'll be in the library. Or the other library.
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Debate and the list of the MPs voting for and against the bill linked above.House of Commons Debates 15 September 2015
Tax Credits
The Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury (Damian Hinds): I beg to move,
That the draft Tax Credits (Income Thresholds and Determination of Rates) (Amendment) Regulations 2015, which were laid before this House on 7 September, be approved.
The House divided:
Ayes 325, Noes 290.
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... 1543000002
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
That would be my wish also.TechnicalEphemera wrote:Corbyn needs to slim his offer to anti Austerity, housing and making this country a just place to live (a fair shout for everybody, everybody pays taxes, no more freeloading elite), i.e. narrow the offer, and stick to that. Repeat that message for 5 years and maybe he could win in 2020.
One world, like it or not - John Martyn
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Okay so we kick of with a veiled dig at Corbyn. May I ask that we do not forget Cameron thanking those plucky Yanks for saving us in the Battle of Britain?
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Um, that's why I specifically said *English* anthemPorFavor wrote:Oh - and isn't Jerusalem rather England centred (if you're thinking in terms of the UK)?
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Dave's trying to behave himself....
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Ah, sorry - I missed that, somehow. And it was such a short post, too! It was the red mist that came up when you advocated Jerusalem . . .AnatolyKasparov wrote:Um, that's why I specifically said *English* anthemPorFavor wrote:Oh - and isn't Jerusalem rather England centred (if you're thinking in terms of the UK)?
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Great performance from Corbyn - good for him.
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Same tune as the National Anthem only this one below is called, 'My Country, 'Tis of Thee' or, 'America'RogerOThornhill wrote:I Vow To Thee My Country would do for me.
And a far, far better tune.
Isn't the tune to GSTQ used by other countries anyway? Let's have one that is just used by us.
My country, 'tis of thee,
Sweet land of liberty,
Of thee I sing;
Land where my fathers died,
Land of the pilgrims' pride,
From ev'ry mountainside
Let freedom ring!
I don't sing either of them.
I pledge allegiance to liberty and justice for all
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Solo rendition of God Save the Quing?PaulfromYorkshire wrote:Great performance from Corbyn - good for him.
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Agreed.gilsey wrote:That would be my wish also.TechnicalEphemera wrote:Corbyn needs to slim his offer to anti Austerity, housing and making this country a just place to live (a fair shout for everybody, everybody pays taxes, no more freeloading elite), i.e. narrow the offer, and stick to that. Repeat that message for 5 years and maybe he could win in 2020.
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
PorFavor wrote:Oh - and isn't Jerusalem rather England centred (if you're thinking in terms of the UK)?
Verse 6 of national anthem, might rub with some:-
6. Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
SNP. Body punch. Good one.
We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to public office. – Aesop
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
I've not been staying away, been away from internet access.
I was more optimistic than before a couple of days ago. I'm pessimistic again.
I don't sing the national anthem. But if I were trying to be PM, I'd sing it because a PM not singing the national anthem would seem odd. I see a few Corbyn fans are now saying that Corbyn needs a media strategy. Well, we told ya. And lots of you called us "Tories".
True, if it weren't this it would probably be something else on the front page to distract from bad news (unemployment up again), but at least make them dig around a bit. Don't hand them gifts like this. Think "what would the Salmond do?" He'd have seen this coming a mile off.
It looks like DWP policy is being made on the hoof too, over the heads of the spokespeople.
I was more optimistic than before a couple of days ago. I'm pessimistic again.
I don't sing the national anthem. But if I were trying to be PM, I'd sing it because a PM not singing the national anthem would seem odd. I see a few Corbyn fans are now saying that Corbyn needs a media strategy. Well, we told ya. And lots of you called us "Tories".
True, if it weren't this it would probably be something else on the front page to distract from bad news (unemployment up again), but at least make them dig around a bit. Don't hand them gifts like this. Think "what would the Salmond do?" He'd have seen this coming a mile off.
It looks like DWP policy is being made on the hoof too, over the heads of the spokespeople.
Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
Horrifying.tinybgoat wrote:Verse 6 of national anthem, might rub with some:-PorFavor wrote:Oh - and isn't Jerusalem rather England centred (if you're thinking in terms of the UK)?
6. Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!
Bombs, flags, fighting and deathOh, say can you see by the dawn’s early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O’er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket’s red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?
- 'Star Spangled Banner'
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
For God's sake Cameron annoys me so, so much in fact that I've fired off several attacks btl on AS' blog, typos included. Am now listening quietly for the rest of the session.
I would close my eyes if I couldn't dream.
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Re: Wednesday16th September 2015
He needs a media strategy sure, but that strategy won't and can't be the Blairite one of "grovel to them and feed them irrelevant gossipy titbits".
I basically share Robert's total contempt for the MSM (with, of course, honourable exceptions - but they do seem to be ever decreasing in number)
So do MILLIONS of people out there. Even many right wingers, not so privately, despise them and detest "having" to crawl to them.
I basically share Robert's total contempt for the MSM (with, of course, honourable exceptions - but they do seem to be ever decreasing in number)
So do MILLIONS of people out there. Even many right wingers, not so privately, despise them and detest "having" to crawl to them.
"IS TONTY BLAIR BEHIND THIS???!!!!111???!!!"